In search of a 4x4

[syncview]

Uh.. I don't know but I wouldn't call it 'lightly built' lol

Yeah old land cruisers are well, good old land cruisers.

[Blind_Io]

The XK is lightly built compared to many other 4x4s, like the Land Cruiser. For a time we had both an FJ80 and a Jeep XJ and it was amazing how little there was holding the Jeep together compared to the Toyota. In the 16 years we had the Land Cruiser we put it through 200,000 miles of abuse and other than parts that you expect to wear out, it never gave us a problem. The Jeep was much newer and we only had it a few years but in that time it needed two new sets of U-joints, the fuel system constantly kicked error codes, the interior rattled and all the seams opened up, and a weld broke on the rear shock mount that caused the shock to be folded in half.

All those failures and it still couldn't tackle the same trails the Land Cruiser could easily conquer.

After owning an XJ, I guarantee I'll never buy another one.

[Shawnw]

So I think I've got my choices narrowed down to five possibilities, all with their positives and negatives.

1-Full size Bronco, 78 and up.
+Solidly built, good parts supply in local junkyards.
-Pigs on gas, all but the newest will probably have rusty bodys.

2-Dodge Ramcharger, any
+Unstoppable off-road, next to impossible to break.
-rust, more expensive parts, price

3-Ford F150/F250, 73-79, 87-96
+Simple, parts everywhere, cheap
-everybody has one

4-Toyota Land Cruiser, 80-90
+Reliability, decent availability
-Rust!, extremely expensive here even when half the bodywork has rusted away

5-Lada Niva
+Smaller(easier parking, tighter trails) Local garage specializing in Ladas about 2km away
-Expensive parts and service, comfort of a tractor, slow.

All of these are easy enough to find locally and would suit my needs. The Ford Pickups seem to be at the top of my list right now as the box offers more versatility than the suvs. But at the same time is nice to have the option of sleeping more comfortably in a SUV while camping in a freak rainstorm.

[nouseferaname90]

Isn't the FJ80 from 1992 on good as well?

Hell, even the 1991 is good. Ours just didn't like the timing belt no matter how much the shop fixed it.

[Shawnw]

I'm sure the 90's ones are good but scanning the classifieds here shows that they are few and far between compared to the 1980's models and are extremly overpriced.

[Spectre]

I didn't want to mention it myself, as I have one - but how about a WD21 Pathfinder?

[Shawnw]

I used to drive one as a work vehicle for the forestry consulting company I worked for before the logging industry collapsed. I can attest that it handled the logging roads very well especially seeing that we worked in areas that the roads had been untouched or deactivated for years.

However in my first week on the job, the auto transmission went leaving us stranded in the middle of nowhere. We switched that Pathfinder out for one with a stick which was very, very slow. That one had two seperate freak fuel leaks, rattled horribly and was extremly twitchy at speed on the logging roads. After those problems were dealt with it was a reliable, yet sluggish truck.

For my needs there are alot worse options out there and the price of the pathfinders is tempting but I think I've had my fill of Nissans for quite a while.

[syncview]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

The XK is lightly built compared to many other 4x4s, like the Land Cruiser. For a time we had both an FJ80 and a Jeep XJ and it was amazing how little there was holding the Jeep together compared to the Toyota. In the 16 years we had the Land Cruiser we put it through 200,000 miles of abuse and other than parts that you expect to wear out, it never gave us a problem. The Jeep was much newer and we only had it a few years but in that time it needed two new sets of U-joints, the fuel system constantly kicked error codes, the interior rattled and all the seams opened up, and a weld broke on the rear shock mount that caused the shock to be folded in half.

All those failures and it still couldn't tackle the same trails the Land Cruiser could easily conquer.

After owning an XJ, I guarantee I'll never buy another one.

:s my experience has been VERY different.. i have a 1996 xj, bought it used, it was around 180,000 kilometers.. nothing BIG has gone wrong so far, one wire shorted.. but that was my mistake had to do something with the security system which I didn't install correctly.. engine is running strong, all other things are working.. steerings good, its good to drive.. over heating is a problem but, the radiator was busted..

I agree you on the Land Cruiser part, Cherokee isn't exactly as good as the LC when stock, its very low and all that.. till now, as far as I think, the only things going wrong are because they are 13 year old now..

[tigger]

I like your taste in trucks Shawn. Personally if I wanted something absolutely indestructible and cheap I'd go for a 1973 to early '80s GM 4x4. The drivetrain is just as tough as anything else (except for the later IFS trucks, like Clegko said) and you can't beat the SBC V8 for cheap parts.

I think an older Ford would work great as well, especially with that 4.9 straight six. But I don't think I'd mess with the TTB front axle though, at least not if I wanted something to modify. All Broncos after 1980 had it.

Something else to consider is that all of those 'little' SUVs (Bronco, Blazer and Ramcharger) with the removable tops are prone to rust in strange places. I've looked at a few K5s and Broncos that had nearly no visible rust ... until you pulled up the carpet in the back.

So anyway, pre-1980 4.9 Bronco or pre-1987 3/4 ton GM 4x4 is my vote. Or an International-Harvester Scout II, if you can find one.

[Shawnw]

I forgot about the ttb axles. I had a lifted 88 F250 with the ttb that would not stay straight. Definatly something to keep in mind.
And as far as rust goes, if its a local vehicle I'll be going over it with a fine toothed comb. Due to constant moisture about 9 months out of the year, any car or truck here can rust in the oddest of spots.
The 73-87 chevys are tempting with that drivetrain, but for whatever reason I can't stand that body style. I think the 67-72 chevys were some of the best looking stock trucks ever made and I would love to find one but 4WD examples are all but extinct here unless you want to pay $15000 for a restored one.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Shawnw

I used to drive one as a work vehicle for the forestry consulting company I worked for before the logging industry collapsed. I can attest that it handled the logging roads very well especially seeing that we worked in areas that the roads had been untouched or deactivated for years.

However in my first week on the job, the auto transmission went leaving us stranded in the middle of nowhere. We switched that Pathfinder out for one with a stick which was very, very slow. That one had two seperate freak fuel leaks, rattled horribly and was extremly twitchy at speed on the logging roads. After those problems were dealt with it was a reliable, yet sluggish truck.

For my needs there are alot worse options out there and the price of the pathfinders is tempting but I think I've had my fill of Nissans for quite a while.

Sounds like you had the Z24/KA24 powered Pathfinders. The VG30E powered trucks are significantly faster - in fact, they're faster to 60 than most of your candidates that you've listed so far. They're certainly better on-road than any you've listed.

The automatic transmission issue was caused by an undersized radiator-integrated transmission cooler that would clog and die. Easily and cheaply rectified with a large external cooler. Plus, even right out of the box, they'll go some places even mildly modified Wranglers can't.

[Shawnw]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Sounds like you had the Z24/KA24 powered Pathfinders. The VG30E powered trucks are significantly faster - in fact, they're faster to 60 than most of your candidates that you've listed so far. They're certainly better on-road than any you've listed.

The automatic transmission issue was caused by an undersized radiator-integrated transmission cooler that would clog and die. Easily and cheaply rectified with a large external cooler. Plus, even right out of the box, they'll go some places even mildly modified Wranglers can't.

They must have been because they were horribly slow. Sure we had our gear inside but it wouldn't have weighed more than an average weekends worth of camping gear. Overtaking tourists on the highway coming home was scary at times.

The main reason I wouldn't buy one though woud be how twitchy they felt on gravel roads at speed. We were constantly being passed by the loggers and road crews truck like were standing still. I know that my other choices aren't exactly long wheelbase but I've driven examples of each and they've felt much more planted on the gravel.

[Spectre]

They're not that twitchy if their steering damper is installed and functional. I drive mine down gravel roads at speed all the time; I specifically bought it with the idea of cruising around my client's concrete plant (and its gravel roads).

If you need a wider track (which I do recommend,) you can stick older Chevy truck pattern wheels on them for nothing to get a an inch or two increase in width - no body clearance issues.

[JipJopJones]

Out of the choices you've stated,

I'd have to either go for the Ford Bronco, or the Lada Niva.

Broco's are really great trucks, I've had no experience with them, but I know people who swear by them...

On the other hand, I did have a Lada Niva. Great little truck, slow as hell, but still fun to drive and excelent offroad and in the snow. The only thing is that the 5 speed transmissions are pretty weak and 5th gear tends to disapear and take 3rd with it. So if you do get one, be sure to have lots of spare tranny parts... OR... there is a company in australia that makes more heavy duty gear sets for the 5 speed that can be installed to fix the problem.

Also... no chevy love? jk, I'm a chevy guy myself but ford makes a good truck, there is no denying that.

If I might ask, what made you steer clear of the wagoneer? The 2 door/rear barn door ones are sweet. (I'm pretty sure they were called cherokee's actually)

[Shawnw]

I drove by a couple of Nivas tonight and there was a very clean, crisp white unmodified one sitting there tempting me, might stop in and ask how much tomorrow.
No Chevys because I don't like the 73-87 body style, the 88-98 were crap and anything newer or older in decent shape is expensive. The Suburbans can be cool, but I don't need that much truck.
I do like the looks and specs of the Wagoneers but they are few and far between and usually rusty as hell.

[JipJopJones]

Fair enough about the chevy's and wagoneers.

If you do end up getting a Niva, if you put mud tires or whatever on it be sure to get the correct offset for them, suzuki wheels fit, and look cool. But you will be replacing wheel bearings non-stop.

[Shawnw]

So I think I've got a couple of trucks somewhat locally to look at.

I noticed a early 90's extended cab Ford for sale at the side of the road today. I'm going to go back and grab the phone number and info tomorrow. From a glance it looked clean if well used. Hopefully everythings in order as I've had a 88 and 95 ford that were both great.

And as much as I've been saying I'm not a fan of the 73-87 chevys I'll be taking a look at one on Saturday. Its a 1982 with a 350 on propane. That combination makes it one of the cheapest, easiest to find parts for trucks that I've seen. That combined with the fact that it looks like a good honest ruck that hasn't been abused helps. Plus the owner has a set of 6" leaf springs.

And then theres the third possible option that I'm trying to talk myself out of. I dont want to let too many details slip but its a running and driving, 57 year old, 3/4 ton, fully capable 4X4 truck. Sure it will only do maybe 55mph and its very spartan and uncomfortable but it would be such a blast to take it out on weekends and actually use it the way it was intended to be used.

[Der Stig]

Is it a Dodge Powerwagon? If it is...you buy now!

[Shawnw]

Close, but a little more ugly and a little less civilian.

[tigger]

A Dodge M37?

I've always wanted a M715. Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy (and keep gas in) something that awesome.