How to license a (stolen) image?

BerserkerCatSplat

BerserkerCatSplat

Hormone Induced
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Alberta, Canada
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Well, I need some advice here. How would a person go about licensing a company to use a photo? Basically, a race event in Edmonton (Sport Compact Challenge) has been using one of my photos on their promo images, as seen here:

SCC-Edmonton.gif


The shot of the silver 350Z is mine, taken at last year's SCC event.

DSC_0306smlwmk.jpg


Anyway, I'm annoyed that they're using my photo without permission, but I'd rather just license them the use of the image instead of having them remove it. Unfortunately, I really don't have any experience with that sort of photo sale. Does anyone know how much I should ask for, and what kind of license template I should use?

Thanks, guys.
 
If you were to contact them to try and get some money out them, they're most likely to say, "Ha! Stick it, we'll just find some other picture."

My advice is to just be flattered and flaunt your newly-found bragging rights ;)
 
epp_b said:
If you were to contact them to try and get some money out them, they're most likely to say, "Ha! Stick it, we'll just find some other picture."

My advice is to just be flattered and flaunt your newly-found bragging rights ;)
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Could ask them to post a photo credit and link to your site somewhere.
 
Well, I've sent a message to the organizer. I wasn't really expecting money, instead I've suggested being given VIP access to their events in exchange for use of the image. I happen to know that they're looking for photographers, so we'll see if I can swing this so my images will be used in a more official capacity.
 
Toobad that happened; I see now you use some kind of fancy pants watermark. :p How did you come up with that?
 
epp_b said:
If you were to contact them to try and get some money out them, they're most likely to say, "Ha! Stick it, we'll just find some other picture."

My advice is to just be flattered and flaunt your newly-found bragging rights ;)
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Thats the worst advice ever !!!

Chase them down and leave them away with nothing !!

I never where possible leave image theft go unpunished, It is a crime !!
 
Thats the worst advice ever !!!

Chase them down and leave them away with nothing !!

I never where possible leave image theft go unpunished, It is a crime !!
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Oh, yeah, that's a great idea; screw yourself into oblivion. Enjoy being erased from history.

His biggest problem isn't "piracy", it's obscurity. Sure, some credit would be nice, but it makes no sense to get in an argument if he's denied.
 
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epp_b said:
Oh, yeah, that's a great idea; screw yourself into oblivion. Enjoy being erased from history.

His biggest problem isn't "piracy", it's obscurity. Sure, some credit would be nice, but it makes no sense to get in an argument if you're denied.
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You and Cosworth are representing different extremes on the issue. Is image theft a crime? Yes, absolutely, it's blatant copyright violation. If I don't make a fuss, than nobody knows I even took the picture, and hence them using it gains me absolutely nothing. I'm not going to sue them, either, unless they do something stupid, like tell me to fuck off. I'm trying the middle road, take their error and turn it into a business opportunity for myself.

Cosworth is more correct than you, TBH. They have no right to use my image unless I let them, and as such I should be compensated if they do. If someone steals your car, do you just say, "Oh, well, I really shouldn't raise a fuss about it, I might get screwed."
 
Even though they ripped you off BSC - congrats on the recognition of your work.
 
fbc said:
Even though they ripped you off BSC - congrats on the recognition of your work.
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Thanks, I do find it strangely flattering that they liked my photo enough to "borrow" it. :lol:


Anyway, I'm waiting for a response from the SCC organizers. I feel that the best indication of their moral fiber will be how they deal with the issue, rather than the initial incident. It's entirely possible that whoever made the promo image just didn't understand how image copyright works - I'd rather assume ignorance than malice.
 
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If I don't make a fuss, than nobody knows I even took the picture, and hence them using it gains me absolutely nothing.
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Perhaps you're just using the expression, but I don't "making a fuss" is necessary. A polite confrontation is all that's needed.

Cosworth is more correct than you, TBH. They have no right to use my image unless I let them, and as such I should be compensated if they do.
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That's a bit naive. If you base your business on what you think people should do, and not what they most likely will do, you've already failed.

People are likely to pay for something when they pop to the shop because they are exchanging money for a physical and tangible item. People are unlikely to do the same to right-click and select "copy" on an image because it's merely duplicating bits. People are unlikely to even give it a second thought, leave alone any thought at all.

Oh, and trying to enforce the unenforceable just makes you look silly.

If someone steals your car, do you just say, "Oh, well, I really shouldn't raise a fuss about it, I might get screwed."
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Let's please not open that can of worms, but, for the record: copyright infringement that theft are two completely different things, even if they have managed to be melded into a messy and obscure definition by copyright abusers and trolls.

If I copy an image, it's depriving you only of some imaginary "property" right. It's not moral. It's not immoral. It's utilitarian and human-devised. If I steal your car, I am depriving you of an actual, physical and tangible thing. That's completely different.

Thanks, I do find it strangely flattering that they liked my photo enough to "borrow" it.
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I don't think it's strange at all. I know I'd be pretty flattered and impressed if someone decided that they liked a creative work I made; enough so to use it to represent their business.

And, yes, I'd probably give them a call, say thanks and just ask if they could put a little credit on it; but that's as far as I'd go.
 
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epp_b said:
People are likely to pay for something when they pop to the shop because they are exchanging money for a physical and tangible item. People are unlikely to do the same to right-click and select "copy" on an image because it's merely duplicating bits. People are unlikely to even give it a second thought, leave alone any thought at all.

Oh, and trying to enforce the unenforceable just makes you look silly.
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There is a huge, vast difference between saving my image to your hard drive. (That's legal, as far as I'm concerned. If I was worried about that, I wouldn't even put my photos online), and saving it to your hard drive and then using in an advertising campaign. If you take my picture and have it printed, that's illegal - you'll find that any time you have a digital photo printed, you have to accept a disclaimer saying you own the photo, and/or the right to print it. If you haven't a)created, or b)purchased the photo, you have to right to do nothing but look at it. That's copyright law.

If you think digital image copyright law is unenforceable, I have an IBM lawsuit for you to look over.

Let's please not open that can of worms, but, for the record: copyright infringement that theft are two completely different things, even if they have managed to be melded into a messy and obscure definition by copyright abusers and trolls.

If I copy an image, it's depriving you only of some imaginary "property" right. It's not moral. It's not immoral. It's utilitarian and human-devised. If I steal your car, I am depriving you of an actual, physical and tangible thing. That's completely different.
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Wrong again. As the photographer, I have sole copyright over the image the second I press the shutter. I maintain that copyright until I sell it, license it. or give it away. Posting an image online does not place it in the public domain, it merely gives people the right to look at it. I still maintain the copyright, and that is why I have a watermark on every one of my online images to remind people of that fact. When SCC took my image and placed it on an advertisement designed to promote their business and make them money, they broke the law. Simple. Whether they knew they were breaking the law or not is irrelevant. They stole the work that I created and used it for personal gain.


I'd probably give them a call, say thanks
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Thank them for blatantly stealing my image? Great, that'll totally keep them from doing it again and again.

Maybe these things aren't important to you, but as a photographer, they're important to me.
 
Thank them for blatantly stealing my image? Great, that'll totally keep them from doing it again and again.
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Yes, that is great!

And can we stop calling it "stealing". Plain and simply, it is not theft. I already explained that.
 
Okay, here's a proper and not a my-dominos-has-just-arrived-reply ...

Secondly, apologies if this sounds bitchy, it shouldnt but its gone 2 a.m....


Here goes ...

Image 'borrowing' is theft. Using another persons image(s) for your own gain is out of order, unacceptable and IMO, an extreme display of being unprofessional in your work. It is against the law and it should never be tolerated.

I take a photograph tomorrow, it is my intellectual property. I have a right to publicly display it without fear of the image being reproduced without my knowledge / approval. It belongs to me. It can make me money. Why should someone else take it for free whilst I charge another client to use it.

The problem this stems from is people who buy cameras and call themselves photographers.

If I buy a wrench, does that make me a mechanic ? No.

If I buy a scalpel, does that make me a surgeon ? No.

A persons career/talents, is/are not based in their tools, it is based within their abilites. Unfortunately, there are plenty of these gun-ho photographers out there, showing off their l337 roxxoring depth of field skills 'ch3ck out my b0keh!!11' with only a passing interest in photography and no real future prospects as they would rather imitate than innovate. If they happen to get a shot thats used publicly, this is their greatest achievment that so many people are seeing their work. In all honesty, nobody is seeing their work. The public are seeing a photograph by snapper X. These 'photographers' are willing to leave these 'borrowings' go unnoticed and with no credit or payment. This leaves unprofessional company #874 happy in their nappy because your photo, has been used in their advertising, to sell their product/service, to make them money.

This creates a problem for people who can see themselves turning professional in a few years and with some luck, maybe make a living out of something they love. When unprofessional company #874 go looking for photos for their next event, why should they pay BSC or me, who is trying to make a living, $50 for our photograph when they can steal yours for free ? Can you see where that arguement goes ?

I've been involved in alot of copyright battles in a very short times. It's never easy. It's nearly always messy. But it is the right thing to do. Usually, all it takes is a 'Sorry but you know that image is mine and I never gave you permission to use it? But look, lets sort something out amongst ourselves ...' If they decide to ignore you, you take a step up. The final step is closing contact with them and opening contact with them through your solicitor / lawyer. Then watch them sweat as they realise they havent a snowmans chance in hell of coming out the other side intact.

People like BSC & I are people who have more than a passion for photography. It may someday be our livelihood. The last thing we need is for some yuppie to be happy to watch his photo being stolen, especially when he could make himself some money from it, help himself to get better & teach unprofessional company #874 that using a professionals work would infact probably make them more money as well as being the morally right thing to do.

The novelty of having your images published wears off quickly, but the pain of having your work stolen never gets any easier.

Your obviously not a photographer. With that attitude you will never be either.

I hope that you never have to put up with, what we do.

BSC, if you need any advice. please PM me 8)
 
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Cosworth said:
The novelty of having your images published wears off quickly, but the pain of having your work stolen never gets any easier.

BSC, if you need any advice. please PM me 8)
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Truer words have never been spoken. being published is great, but when someone whores out your work and gives you nothing in return, it burns you.

I'll certainly give you a shout if I need some advice, I'm really happy about the support I've been getting from the photographic community on this issue. Apparently, this happens more often than you'd think. :(
 
Lets say youve already licenced that image exclusively to another company/org, how does that make you look when they see the same image in another companys advertising? should you call and thank them for ruining your reputation?
 
Image 'borrowing' is theft.
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You can call it whatever you want, but it's "copyright infringement". "Theft" is an entirely different entity and law.

Your obviously not a photographer. With that attitude you will never be either.
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No, but I am a web developer. And, I have, by the way, had designs of mine copied before (hey, that's a compliment!). But I didn't act like a troll and try to after anyone. Why? Because I created the design, sold it, and that's all I wanted to do. What happens with it after that is beyond my control...so I don't act like a idiot by trying to control it.

Society lives and breaths by copying and duplicating. Do you think the inventor of the wheel tried to keep it to himself and wring everyone out for copying it?
 
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epp_b said:
Society lives and breaths by copying and duplicating. Do you think the inventor of the wheel tried to keep it to himself and wring everyone out for copying it?
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That is the single weakest rationalization of copyright infringement that I've ever heard. :blink:
 
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