Building PC / Have Questions

[Shawn]

So what do you all recommend I get? A 9800?

I obviously don't need to have the latest and greatest in my computer after it's built... I'm currently running a Radeon 9800 128mb.

[MadCow809]

Well you did say its only about $70 difference.

In this case, go for the 9800GTX, and you can definetely find a HTPC case that can accommodate a full size card like the 9800GTX.

[Shawn]

^ That sale is over, so now the difference is $130.

I'm still willing to buy the 9800GTX, soon as I find a good case. The problem with HTPC cases isn't the space, but the weird placement of the various pieces of hardware. With most cases I've looked at, if you have a long video card, you won't be able to use the drive cages.

[jeffy777]

If you have the money and nothing better to spend it on: get the 9800GTX

If you want good performance, but also want to save some money: get the 8800GT

Whatever you do, the extra you'd pay for an 8800GTX is certainly not worth it, as the 8800GT performs on the same level, just a bit below.

[MadCow809]

Originally Posted by jeffy777

If you have the money and nothing better to spend it on: get the 9800GTX

If you want good performance, but also want to save some money: get the 8800GT

Whatever you do, the extra you'd pay for an 8800GTX is certainly not worth it, as the 8800GT performs on the same level, just a bit below.

^

couldn't agree more. +1 from me as well.

Ignore the ridiculously overpriced 8 series GTX/Ultra models. They are just not worth the extra moolah. Heck, if you got money to play around and make your pc look fancy, do a pair SLI or CrossFire for the money, much worth it than investing on a 8800GTX IMO.

But get a 8800GT / 9600GT / HD3870 to save money. They are really cheap now, all around $150 or so, with the 8800GT being the fastest card at stock form. If you want to spend more money, then 9800GTX($300) should be your best option.

But bear in mind, with $300, you have lots of other options to play around as well:

A pair of 3870 is extremely potent, especially with HD movies and some/future DX10.1 games. A pair of 9600GT is also around the same price, and offers pretty much the same level of performance. Or a pair of 8800GT, which also a great SLI option.



Personally, I'd rather have a CrossFire/SLI setup over a single 9800GTX card. That said, if you decide to go with the 9800GTX now, you can always shove in another 9800GTX in the future when the price drops.

[Shawn]

Okay guys, here's what I'm going for to get me started. Might get stuff like Bluray and RAID a little later on.



It couldn't be more in time... my old desktop has just started making some worrying noises.

[jeffy777]

Looks good man

[MadCow809]

Looks pretty good to me as well.

[Shawn]

Hai guys. So I was busy all day yesterday buying the parts and assembling them, and I was busy all day today loading all my software and setting it up just so.

I got all the parts listed above, except I got a 750GB Samsung Spinpoint instead of the 500GB Seagate I was gonna buy. They were out of Barracudas, and the Samsung was a steal at $115. I figured you can never have too much hard drive space.

All in all, I got a great deal on the parts... barely broke $1,000 (not including tax). Some of the stuff was super cheap, like the C2D E8400 I got for $200. I had the money to go really overboard with SLi videos cards and a RAID setup and other useless stuff like that, but I didn't really wanna waste money. I think the machine I ended up building is powerful, without going over the top.

I was most concerned about the case I bought, since all the reviews said the case was very snug and an impossible fit for oversized hardware. Well, it was neither snug nor small. The problem I think is that the case has theoretical room for 8 hard drives, 2 optical drives and full size ATX mobo and PSU. If you wanted to fit all that in, it would be impossible, I agree. But I took out one of the two HDD cages and that allowed ample room for the 9800GTX... which turned out to be much more mammoth than I expected by the way. The front USB/audio panel doesn't work and I pulled out the innards of one of the USB ports by accident, but no biggie, I'll just install my card reader in it's place. Who needs 12 USB ports in an HTPC anyway?

My favorite part is the modular Enermax PSU. About twice the price of the cheapest 500W unit I could have bought, but it's very well-designed, quiet and even comes with a little cool pouch to put all the unused wires in.

Long story short, it's up and running and it's wonderful. Overall it's very quiet and runs rather cool for a smallish case. I'm actually enjoying Vista and realize how much I missed having an up to date Windows machine. It's just so much more customizable than Mac for power users.

Here are some random pictures of the interior of the case, just so I don't bore everyone to death with text:





I still have a Q: Do you guys think it's worth it for me to get an SPDIF hookup between the computer and my TV? I'm currently hooked up through a dual RCA cable, and I gotta say, it sounds decent enough. Will I get any kind of benefit if I went digital, even though I'm just using my TV's dual speakers?

Thanks for all the help everyone, I'm finally gonna send out those reps I promised. Only problem is, now I wish I had a bigger TV!

[jeffy777]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I still have a Q: Do you guys think it's worth it for me to get an SPDIF hookup between the computer and my TV? I'm currently hooked up through a dual RCA cable, and I gotta say, it sounds decent enough. Will I get any kind of benefit if I went digital, even though I'm just using my TV's dual speakers?

Do you have a dedicated sound card? If so, I would say yes (don't see it in the pics though?), but if you are just using your motherboard's on-board sound, it probably isn't going to get any better.

[Shawn]

I'm just using the mobo's built in sound. How come standalone sound cards are supposed to be so much better than mobo sound? I mean most mobos come with 5.1 surround connections and SPDIF and stuff?

Also, any recommendations on a gaming controller of some sort? Playing on a keyboard isn't fun when you're sitting on a couch.

[jeffy777]

The answer is better sound quality and overall system performance. From an article on the subject:

Why should I get a soundcard when my Motherboard has onboard sound?

I would say onboard sound is basically a marketing tactic used by motherboard manufacturers to sell an all-in-one solution. These soundchips undoubtedly have come along way since the first onboards, and would be fine for a basic office or home PC, but they still do not stand up to a quality add-in PCI card for many reasons.

Onboard sound chips need to use CPU cycles to process sound. This robs your sytem of performance. If your sound chip has EAX which alot of them do these days the issue is compounded usually degrading your performance somewhere in the area of 5-15 FPS in games. This is usually the reported number of FPS that users report getting when then install a PCI sound solution. This is not the worst issue though.

Of course if a user has been using their soundchips for quite a while, the ear gets used to the less than stellar sound quality boasted by onboard sound chips. When a user installs a PCI solution they are literally blown away by the sound quality. They report hearing things in games and music that previously was not noticable. Once a user is used to a PCI sound card they can hear the deficiencies inherent to onboard sound chips and will never use one again. They sound very cold and sterile. DSP effects are usually overwhelming and washed out. These chips have no qualities usually associated with good sound, so alot of times the user will not know what they are missing until they hear it. You will need a set of decent speakers to be able to hear the difference however. $10 speakers won't cut it.

Now over the years various companies have released onboard sound chips that have tried to get over these issues. Connecting to the bus in different ways so they don't use CPU cycles etc. In terms of sound quality they are still lacking. All in all that's what we all want, I could care less about other things as long as I have great sound quality. People spend so much time building up there video subsystems, studying and reading about the best video components, but then they have an older onboard sound card connected to small multimedia speakers. Very sad indeed. If they invested half the time researching audio as they spent on video they wouldn't be using onboard sound. They would be using at least an entry level soundcard with surround sound speakers. Modern games are productional masterpieces with equal attention paid to audio as well as video. Without this hardware you're only getting half of what the game developers wanted you to experience. Sound is definitely an important part of all modern games. Indeed most new games contain EAX, surround sound support and directional audio, all used to make your game more enjoyable. Unfortunately all are limited by the sound hardware you have.

So the choice is up to you, and the question becomes:

Why wouldn't you replace your onboard with a quality PCI sound card?

Personally, I've never understood why people are willing to spend a ton on a great video card and CPU, but skimp on a sound card, especially in today's world where people are using their PCs a lot more for media.

[Vette Boss]

The SPDIF on your TV is an output, used to connect to a receiver or amplifier. I made the same mistake in thinking the HD box could connect to the TV in the same way, but it doesn't work. There's no discernible difference between 2.0 PCM over TV speakers anyway.

The reason you'd be interested in a dedicated sound card is, they have better circuitry for improved sound and they help take load off the CPU during gaming. Plus, they often decode the sound formats used in movies such as DTS and Dolby Digital. For an HTPC, a good sound card is a must.

Keeping things in perspective, though. The RCA cable is fine for 2.0.

[essentialatom]

Not that I want to hijack the thread for myself, but I'm about to build a new PC too - what sound cards would you guys recommend? I'm going to use the machine for gaming and watching HD movies (more so the latter). I've also got a very decent set of 5.1 speakers to use. But looking at various websites - Creative's especially - I really don't know what to choose. They all look the same and have stupid names

Can you guys help out?

[jeffy777]

I have the Creative X-Fi Extreme Gamer, and love it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102006

[MadCow809]

Shawn: Congrats on the build, glad you found a case that will fit everything, it looks pretty spacious from the pics. And Enermax is a good brand for PSU, you made the right choice there.

And dont worry about the SPDIF if you are running onboard sound, cant hear much of a difference.


essentialatom : Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer 7.1 (jeffy posted the link above) should be sufficient, if you want to spend a bit more on it .. the XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional series is the one you should go for.

[Shawn]

Thanks for all the input guys. To be honest, I'm gonna stick with onboard sound for now. I read Jeffy's article, and it makes some good points, but the author does seem too convinced that onboard sound is absolute shit, for everyone.

Even though my new comp is an HTPC, I'm not using it like most people. I don't plan on watching many DVDs or hooking up commercial HDTV. I'm basically gonna listen to my shitty MP3s and watch my TV rips.

[jeffy777]

Onboard sound isn't absolute shit for everyone. It's just sucky in comparison to a nice quality sound card. I used to just use onboard sound, and was very pleased with the jump in quality when I got a real sound card. But if all you are using is your TV's built in speakers, it doesn't really matter. However, if you had a nicer speaker setup, you'd definitely notice a difference with a better sound card though.

[db2450]

Originally Posted by jeffy777

Onboard sound isn't absolute shit for everyone. It's just sucky in comparison to a nice quality sound card. I used to just use onboard sound, and was very pleased with the jump in quality when I got a real sound card. But if all you are using is your TV's built in speakers, it doesn't really matter. However, if you had a nicer speaker setup, you'd definitely notice a difference with a better sound card though.

Well *some* chipsets are quite good and give pretty nice quality audio, even comparitively, unless of corse you are going with a surround setup.

[jeffy777]

Originally Posted by db2450

unless of corse you are going with a surround setup.

That's what I'm talking about.