i need a hardware programmer!!

[bone]

i've got this:




they're car computers in which you can change ignition, injector, timing, .. with all sensors you can imagine (lambda, air temp, throttle posititon, ...)

they've been laying around for more than 5 year, but we want to use them again.

first problem we have is that if we connect it to the laptop which has always been used to program the cpu (win98), the laptop freezes. but i think that's more a prob with the laptop (or the cable) than with the cpu.

second problem..i need that sourcecode! (and not in binary) i have no idea what processors are on there (all filed blanc), and have no idea what program i should use to get to it (hyperterminal or sth? or do i need a program distributed by the cpu-maker?), or even by what means. caus my my new laptop doesn't have a com port anymore

anyone got an idea?

[evan_a]

What kind of connection does it use?

The latest version of VMWare workstation or player will passthrough COM1 (grab a usb-rs232 converter and muck around with the com numbers), so you load win95 on your VM (or image your laptop to it if it lasts that long).

I'd assume you could then HT to it.

Hope this helps...

[bone]

not realy

by now i figured out the processor used is AM2-7C256-55DC 9704MPM, but i don't think that's of any significance

iirc, it's the memory that's important. that's a Xicor x28C64P-15 DA 526. a little research on the net showed that's an E2PROM. meaning it's an "electrically eraseable programmable read-only memory", which, if you ask me, makes no sense. how can a read only memory, be programmable?????

i also had a look at my final term project, where i programmed an atmel processor/memory, and i had to use a prog called AVR ISP to access/program the memory. but that program is specific for atmel stuff. does Xicor have sth similar? their homesite doesn't seem to exist anymore

it's quite obvious that not many people here will have an answer in 2 minutes, but does anyone know a site where i might have better odds?

[DrJustice]

Bones,

E2PROMs (more commonly called EEPROM) are indeed (re)programmable, but only using a special procedure and/or equipment. Since it can't be written on the fly by the running program it is classified as read only memory.

The pictured system seems to have that EEPROM, an EPROM (the one with the window, only erasable by intense UV light) and an SRAM - a fairly standard memory setup for older embedded systems. My guess is that the EPROM holds the program, and the EEPROM holds the data tables that make up the ignition advane curves and so on. The CPU, running it's software from the EPROM, then performs not only the function of ignition control etc., but also the function of an EEPROM programmer, taking intsructions for the programming procedure and the datastream through the serial port. Thus there is probably no source code involved (unless you are the manufacturer), just some datafiles and a PC program to transfer them to this unit using via a COM port.

So, this thing has the equivalent of an AVR-ISP built in, so to speak. But not for changing the program itself, just the data tables. What you really need to take control of a system like this is the specification for the serial protocol, or better yet, the reprogramming utility software, and ouf course the appropriate data files for the intended application ('application' meaning the types of sensors, ignition system etc. and the wanted interaction between those).

You mention that you want to use it /again/ - did you program it yourself previously, and if so can you remember the exact procedure? If you have nothing to go on, we are talking about reverse engineering and that is a bit too much for this posting

Mind you, all the above is just based on the pictures of the box and how typical embedded systems like that hangs together. With some luck other board members may recognise this unit and be of a bit more help than I'm able to.

As you have observed, newer PC's tend to no longer have serial or parallel ports, which is a bit of a bummer. You do get USB to serial port adapters for 10-20 dollars though.

BTW: The 28C64 is a fairly standard part, although a bit of an oldie. Atmel still makes them and you'll find the datasheet and some application notes here.

DJ
--

[Quiky]

Yeah, I deal with those chips all the time. To erase and reprogram them, you need the UV eraser (Few hundred $), and a eprom/eeprom programmer (another few hundred $$$).

The code that comes from them is typically 256kb of HEX data- not source. Any direct edits of that data will be dangerous if not done properly..

[DrJustice]

I don't think bone need to reprogram the EPROM (27Cxx), but the EEPROM (28Cxx) which is most likely in system programmable. So no need for UV eraser an programmer then, which is good for the budget

Are you getting anywhere, bone?

DJ
--

[bone]

nowhere at all

i can code basic software in almost any language you can imagine, but i think a chimp will have more insight into hardware than i do

i have no idea how to even start

and it doesn't help that xicor hasn't got a website either. all i can find are datasheets, which only are usefull once you have the code.

PS: is there an (easy) way to copy the code to an identical chip? that might help me (so i can make one for on my quad), but not the guy who owns these, he wants to put them into rally cars again

i can show some capabilities of if though

how much miliseconds the ignition needs to be advanced at a certain RPM (top row - goes to 9000) according a certain throttle position (left column)
you can also set advantage according to intake pressure (for turbo) and according to traction


how long the ignition should last at a certain RPM


for how long fuel should be injected at a certain RPM, according a certain throttle position.
here you can set according to intake pressure as well. and you can set for each rpm, after how many degrees it should stop with injecting


how much % the injection should be altered according to outside air temp, according to coolant temp, alternator voltage, CO2
for the same criteria you can also set an advantage and a timelapse for the ignition

and a logging of each action the engine and drive make, and a feature to test every coil, injector, spark plug, thermostat,...
and so much more.

[DrJustice]

Originally Posted by bone

PS: is there an (easy) way to copy the code to an identical chip?

Yeah - but then you'd need a device programmer supporting the 28Cxx family. You'd also need to pull the chip, and it looks like its soldered in (not socketed), so that's a desoldering job then - no problem for anyone competent with soldering though. Devce programmers can be had from a few quids on eBay and upwards; here's a bunch of them (sorry, I have no recommendation for a specific good/cheap one, the one's I'm used to cost lots of $$$, and I've not really had to use one for the last 6-7 years or so sine pretty much everything is in-system programmable now). Are you thinking of backing up the current contents of that chip?

However, it seems to me that you have what you need with that piece of software. It can obviously edit the data files and presumably transfer them to the ECU (ref. the message: "!!! ECU system offline !!!"), and I'd not be surprised if it can read the current tables and store them to files for backup/inspection. This is pretty much what I'd expect from the support software for such a device. So if you have the ECU powered up and a PC with a COM port and a suitable serial cable, I'll bet two bytes and a nibble that this can be turned into a workable situation... hopefully, any additional stumbling blocks would not be worse than a programming enable jumper on the board or some such thing.

I did forget to ask if you have any kind of documentation for it, but I guess you'd have let us know about that by now

Too bad I'm not in Belgium, I'd love to pop over and have a go at it...

DJ
--