laptop battery question

jasonchiu · June 15th, 2005, 02:36 PM

hey guys, i've been running my laptop from DC with the battery in for about 1 week, does this mean that the battery must be damaged or i have shorted it life?

it is a li-lon battery pack and i heard from some ppl saying that its always good to remove the battery when its fully charged and runnin on DC and to remove the battery if u are planning to run it on DC n e ways.

andyhui01 · June 15th, 2005, 02:42 PM

thats what I've heard as well is when you're running normal d/c power, you should remove your battery... but honestly, I can't be bothered to do that because then your battery discharges itself and you won't have battery when you need it the most... My laptops been plugged in for ages and the battery life is still acceptable, hasn't dropped so far and this laptop is about a year old now...

pdanev · June 15th, 2005, 03:02 PM

i never take out my battery. luckily most of the time there is always a socket to plug your laptop in, unless u use your laptop on a train or something i wouldnt bother much about lifetime, cos i dont think you shorten the battery's life that much by not taking it out.

jasonchiu · June 15th, 2005, 03:05 PM

some ppl say that newer battery's are smart enough to not over charge themselves whcih results in shittyer life span.mine is li-lon but i donno if its "smart" or not.

right now i;ve decided to pull it out jsut incase someone posts and tells me it does damage its life =.="

andyhui01 · June 15th, 2005, 03:10 PM

well... you've owned your laptop for about 6months now and you've been putting the battery inside your laptop and charging it for 6months and I even if it screws it up, the damage has already been done images/smilies/wink.gif

, plus as pdanev said, most places you go to now have places to plug in your laptop, even classes images/smilies/wink.gif

jasonchiu · June 15th, 2005, 03:16 PM

no i havent fool, i have taken it out a few times when i use it at home. i dont bring my charger to school coz it lasts the day.

but then there is damage on the corner coz i think i chucked my bag......

bigfoot1942 · June 15th, 2005, 03:18 PM

my laptop is 2,5 years old and ive never removed the battery... not even when i used my laptop as a router for a couple of months.

The battery still lasts 45 minutes or so, i dont think that's short considering its age...

Ive had unpleasant encounters with fellow students with broken batteries when i rearranged a couple of power plugs a while ago though...

andyhui01 · June 15th, 2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonchiu

i have taken it out a few times when i use it at home

a few times out of the 180days you've been using your laptop?... yea, you saved the battery by doing that images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

jasonchiu · June 15th, 2005, 03:22 PM

most the time if i know i will leave my laptop on with D/C for more than a half the day i taken it out u idiot.

andyhui01 · June 15th, 2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonchiu

taken it out u idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonchiu

no i havent fool

whats with this crap again?... gotta stop that again and chill images/smilies/wink.gif

pdanev · June 15th, 2005, 03:32 PM

i take always the charger with me, if im already carrying 2-3kgs the chareger doesnt make my laptop bag havier or bigger images/smilies/wink.gif

jasonchiu · June 15th, 2005, 03:33 PM

i told everyone i know u in person so it doesnt matter coz i dont offend u and i dont mean it

jasonchiu · June 15th, 2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdanev

i take always the charger with me, if im already carrying 2-3kgs the chareger doesnt make my laptop bag havier or bigger images/smilies/wink.gif

yeah thats true the charger is often lighter than the battery for older laptops so its actually a better deal carrying it lol images/smilies/lol.gif

andyhui01 · June 15th, 2005, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonchiu

i told everyone i know u in person so it doesnt matter coz i dont offend u and i dont mean it

yea... well, it gets kinda annoying you start every reply with no you idiot, you fool don't you think?

jasonchiu · June 15th, 2005, 03:55 PM

ok w/e, i start with something different next time, back to the topic

andyhui01 · June 15th, 2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonchiu

ok w/e, i start with something different next time, back to the topic

why not start by posting like a normal person and not call everyone an idiot and get offended by every little comment made against you images/smilies/wink.gif

MXM · June 15th, 2005, 04:03 PM

I think we discussed this already. Or something else about batteries. Anyway, Li-ion do not get damaged from constant charging. Ni-Cd and Ni-Mh loose their capacity, Li-ion shouldn't. Plus with Li-ion there's always a built-in circuit that controlls the charging, so you will not damage it.

jasonchiu · June 15th, 2005, 04:15 PM

phewww.

thanks for the newsMXM

chaos386 · June 16th, 2005, 12:00 AM

The battery won't overcharge, but when the laptop is plugged into the AC it runs hotter, and li-ion batteries degrade faster at higher temperatures. It's not a big enough deal to worry about though (after a year or so, your battery will lose 6% of it's capacity instead of 4%, woo), and the empty battery compartment would collect dust and moisture anyway.

Flying Banana · June 24th, 2005, 11:47 AM

Li-ion batteries will suffer degraded performance and shortened life if not cared for properly.

If they are overcharged Li-ion cells can explode, hence, the reason why these batteries are fitted with control circuitry.

On the other hand they don't suffer the 'memory' effect of a NiCad or NiMh type battery.

The two biggest factors which will kill a Li-Ion battery are high temps and storing them fully charged.

A typical 6 cell laptop battery will have a life of around 600 charge cycles (some more, some less) if you leave the battery in the computer fully charged whilst using mains power then you are exposing it to the high temps in the laptop, it is kept fully charged and every time it loses a small amount of charge the charging circuitry will top it back up again.

I work with batteries regularly in my job and we did a trial with two new laptops, both identical and running on an 11.1V, 4700mAH, 53WH Capacity, 6 Cell Li-Ion battery. Initially they gave nearly 4 1/2 hours working time. After 8 months the one that was left in the laptop all the time and kept on mains all the time it was in the workshop had dropped to 2 1/2 hours life and then the control circuitry failed.

The one which we took the battery out of whenever it was on mains and was stored with 40% charge is giving 4h 10m life after the same length of time.

The recommendations from the battery manufacturer are to charge the battery once it reaches 20% charge left, if storing it out of the computer for more than 48 hours let it reach 40% charge before removing it and to avoid high temps.

We did want to have a proper look at the charging control circuit in the failed battery as it has been rumoured a number of manufacturers build in a failure after a set number of charge cycles, however, the circuit board was conveniently encased in resin. There definitely appeared to be far more components on the board than would be needed for a simple charging controller. And all the cells in the battery were still able to recieve and hold a charge proving the fault was with the controller.

June 15th, 2005, 02:36 PM	#1
jasonchiu Joined: May 26th, 2004 Last Online: August 26th, 2005 Location: hong kong Posts: 5,216 Rep Power: 0	laptop battery question hey guys, i've been running my laptop from DC with the battery in for about 1 week, does this mean that the battery must be damaged or i have shorted it life? it is a li-lon battery pack and i heard from some ppl saying that its always good to remove the battery when its fully charged and runnin on DC and to remove the battery if u are planning to run it on DC n e ways.

June 15th, 2005, 02:42 PM	#2
andyhui01 Joined: Jun 4th, 2004 Last Online: 03:16 AM Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 20 Posts: 8,514 Car: 00' Subaru Forester GT LFS Status: Rep Power: 28	thats what I've heard as well is when you're running normal d/c power, you should remove your battery... but honestly, I can't be bothered to do that because then your battery discharges itself and you won't have battery when you need it the most... My laptops been plugged in for ages and the battery life is still acceptable, hasn't dropped so far and this laptop is about a year old now... __________________

June 15th, 2005, 03:10 PM	#5
andyhui01 Joined: Jun 4th, 2004 Last Online: 03:16 AM Location: Melbourne, Australia Age: 20 Posts: 8,514 Car: 00' Subaru Forester GT LFS Status: Rep Power: 28	well... you've owned your laptop for about 6months now and you've been putting the battery inside your laptop and charging it for 6months and I even if it screws it up, the damage has already been done , plus as pdanev said, most places you go to now have places to plug in your laptop, even classes __________________

June 15th, 2005, 03:18 PM	#7
bigfoot1942 Joined: Sep 15th, 2004 Last Online: October 17th, 2007 Location: Holland Posts: 864 Rep Power: 0	my laptop is 2,5 years old and ive never removed the battery... not even when i used my laptop as a router for a couple of months. The battery still lasts 45 minutes or so, i dont think that's short considering its age... Ive had unpleasant encounters with fellow students with broken batteries when i rearranged a couple of power plugs a while ago though... __________________ thnx viper... youre being very helpful

June 16th, 2005, 12:00 AM	#19
chaos386 .sa = bad driver! Joined: Nov 8th, 2004 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Al-Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 22 Posts: 3,564 LFS Status: Rep Power: 62	The battery won't overcharge, but when the laptop is plugged into the AC it runs hotter, and li-ion batteries degrade faster at higher temperatures. It's not a big enough deal to worry about though (after a year or so, your battery will lose 6% of it's capacity instead of 4%, woo), and the empty battery compartment would collect dust and moisture anyway. __________________ "Shit, that's a busy table cloth." -matt2000

June 15th, 2005, 03:02 PM	#3
pdanev Joined: Oct 4th, 2004 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Netherlands Age: 25 Posts: 5,644 LFS Status: Rep Power: 25	i never take out my battery. luckily most of the time there is always a socket to plug your laptop in, unless u use your laptop on a train or something i wouldnt bother much about lifetime, cos i dont think you shorten the battery's life that much by not taking it out.

June 15th, 2005, 03:05 PM	#4
jasonchiu Joined: May 26th, 2004 Last Online: August 26th, 2005 Location: hong kong Posts: 5,216 Rep Power: 0	some ppl say that newer battery's are smart enough to not over charge themselves whcih results in shittyer life span.mine is li-lon but i donno if its "smart" or not. right now i;ve decided to pull it out jsut incase someone posts and tells me it does damage its life =.="

June 15th, 2005, 03:16 PM	#6
jasonchiu Joined: May 26th, 2004 Last Online: August 26th, 2005 Location: hong kong Posts: 5,216 Rep Power: 0	no i havent fool, i have taken it out a few times when i use it at home. i dont bring my charger to school coz it lasts the day. but then there is damage on the corner coz i think i chucked my bag......

June 15th, 2005, 03:22 PM	#9
jasonchiu Joined: May 26th, 2004 Last Online: August 26th, 2005 Location: hong kong Posts: 5,216 Rep Power: 0	most the time if i know i will leave my laptop on with D/C for more than a half the day i taken it out u idiot.

June 15th, 2005, 03:32 PM	#11
pdanev Joined: Oct 4th, 2004 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Netherlands Age: 25 Posts: 5,644 LFS Status: Rep Power: 25	i take always the charger with me, if im already carrying 2-3kgs the chareger doesnt make my laptop bag havier or bigger

June 15th, 2005, 03:33 PM	#12
jasonchiu Joined: May 26th, 2004 Last Online: August 26th, 2005 Location: hong kong Posts: 5,216 Rep Power: 0	i told everyone i know u in person so it doesnt matter coz i dont offend u and i dont mean it

June 15th, 2005, 03:55 PM	#15
jasonchiu Joined: May 26th, 2004 Last Online: August 26th, 2005 Location: hong kong Posts: 5,216 Rep Power: 0	ok w/e, i start with something different next time, back to the topic

June 15th, 2005, 04:03 PM	#17
MXM old porsches do run! Joined: Jun 9th, 2004 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Finland Age: 26 Posts: 2,712 Car: Porsche 944 LFS Status: Rep Power: 36	I think we discussed this already. Or something else about batteries. Anyway, Li-ion do not get damaged from constant charging. Ni-Cd and Ni-Mh loose their capacity, Li-ion shouldn't. Plus with Li-ion there's always a built-in circuit that controlls the charging, so you will not damage it.

June 15th, 2005, 04:15 PM	#18
jasonchiu Joined: May 26th, 2004 Last Online: August 26th, 2005 Location: hong kong Posts: 5,216 Rep Power: 0	phewww. thanks for the newsMXM

June 24th, 2005, 11:47 AM	#20
Flying Banana Joined: Mar 22nd, 2005 Last Online: April 24th, 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25 Rep Power: 0	Li-ion batteries will suffer degraded performance and shortened life if not cared for properly. If they are overcharged Li-ion cells can explode, hence, the reason why these batteries are fitted with control circuitry. On the other hand they don't suffer the 'memory' effect of a NiCad or NiMh type battery. The two biggest factors which will kill a Li-Ion battery are high temps and storing them fully charged. A typical 6 cell laptop battery will have a life of around 600 charge cycles (some more, some less) if you leave the battery in the computer fully charged whilst using mains power then you are exposing it to the high temps in the laptop, it is kept fully charged and every time it loses a small amount of charge the charging circuitry will top it back up again. I work with batteries regularly in my job and we did a trial with two new laptops, both identical and running on an 11.1V, 4700mAH, 53WH Capacity, 6 Cell Li-Ion battery. Initially they gave nearly 4 1/2 hours working time. After 8 months the one that was left in the laptop all the time and kept on mains all the time it was in the workshop had dropped to 2 1/2 hours life and then the control circuitry failed. The one which we took the battery out of whenever it was on mains and was stored with 40% charge is giving 4h 10m life after the same length of time. The recommendations from the battery manufacturer are to charge the battery once it reaches 20% charge left, if storing it out of the computer for more than 48 hours let it reach 40% charge before removing it and to avoid high temps. We did want to have a proper look at the charging control circuit in the failed battery as it has been rumoured a number of manufacturers build in a failure after a set number of charge cycles, however, the circuit board was conveniently encased in resin. There definitely appeared to be far more components on the board than would be needed for a simple charging controller. And all the cells in the battery were still able to recieve and hold a charge proving the fault was with the controller. __________________

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