MP3/ PMP shootout... input needed!

[Scott]

Ok, I have long been a supporter of Creative and just about everything they make. I currently own a Zen Nomad Jukebox (30 gig) that is on it's last legs (I smacked it on a bus a few days ago) so I am now shopping for it's replacement. Here is what my current player looks like:



Since I am shopping I might as well keep things current and get a device that can handle video as well as audio files. I have been doing my research for the last few days, but there are no Creative dealers in Korea and the PX on base only carries Ipod and Cowon (iAudio) stuff so I am looking for outside input to fill the gap.

The four players in this competition are the following:

Apple Ipod (5th Generation):



Creative Zen Vision M:


Creative Zen Vision W:



and finally, the Korean hometown favorite (but slightly cheaper in the USA) the Cowon (iAudio) X5:



I would say that right now I have never had a need for a mobile video device, and that when I am on the subway/ bus/ my bicycle that music does me just fine. I can however see this as being useful and something I would adapt to in pretty short order.

The biggest advantage I see for the Cowon is that it supports ogg music files and it is the only one that does. I do not have many of those, but it would save me from converting them to mp3. The biggest disadvantage to the Cowon is the screen itself. It is less colors and just a bit smaller than the rest of the group, but it is still plenty good and I am sure I could be happy with it. Cost wise, it is right around 250-300 for the 30gb version.

The Creative versions are both quality from what I can tell, but neither support ogg files. On the video side they do support divx and xvid formats, which is just about everything I have. The vision W obviously has a much bigger screen, but I have concerns about carrying it as a music player (on my hip) because of that big ass screen. The Vision M seems to be a good alternative, but from what I gather the screen is nowhere near as good as the one on the Vision W.

The Ipod is obviously the gold standard right now, and I have one sitting here in front of me as a tester, but honestly with no divx support and the requirement of using I-Tunes it is all but out of the running before I have even stuck the headphones in my ears.

The Ipod is also about half as thick as the rest of these, but I cannot see how that would bother me... if you can explain why it might I would love to hear it! Here is an illustration of the thickness, this is the Vision M vs. the 5th gen. Ipod:



I also found this side by side comapro of the same two but it appears to be biased against apple: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=31530

I would love to hear what you guys have to say on the subject, and if you have another recommendation I would love to hear about it as well.

I am hoping to spend no more than 250 (I will be buying on ebay most likely) and it needs to be at least 30gb. Most of the Koreans use flash memory based players, and I can get those all day long downtown, but they stop at around 8gb and cost just as much as a 30gb HHD based player. The cool part about most Korean PMP's is that they also receive TV signals, but coming back to the topic at hand... your input is hereby requested!

[monkeymax]

A bit of input from me; I had a Zen Nomad 20GB (the USB 2) Creative MP3 player (so the generation older than yours) which I retired 6 months ago for a fifth gen video iPod I got almost free with my MacBook Pro (student discount). I find the sound quality is better from the Zen (which is now 3.5 years old!) than it is from the iPod so I still use the Zen but it's plugged into the hi-fi.
It may be down to personal preference, but I've just found the Creatives to sound better.

Really you need to decide what's your priority. If it's audio quality and audio quality first, then I'd recommend the Zen (the vision M). As you say, the vision W is just too large unless video is your main priority so I wouldn't really bother with that one.
However, the Vision M is bigger (dimensionally) than the 30GB iPod, but about the same (IIRC) as the 80GB one. I've got a 60GB iPod (got it just before they upgraded the hard drive - doh!) and the size doesn't bother me - it's still significantly smaller than the old Zen I had and the battery life is many times better.
I've watched family guy and a couple of other things on the iPod screen when I was on a long coach ride to France. I have a Mac and found it incredibly easy and fast to convert DivX videos I had to MP4 for the iPod, and I find iTunes to work well on PC and Mac myself. However, I did find the iPod screen too small for long sessions of viewing. But then video was not my priority; I wanted a good audio player with lots of storage space and that was what I got (plus the deal I got sweetened it even more!).

I have no experience of Cowon so cannot compare it. But personally, I'd still say the iPod beats the Vision M in terms of overall practicality and capability which is a shame as I've found the Vision M sounds better...
Like I said, you really need to decide what your main priorities are...

My 2p.

[Blind_Io]

I have been using the iPod for a while and I considered the Creative players when looking for a replacement.

iPod:
The Good:
Best in-device interface and navigation, hands down.
iTunes organizes your files (if you want it to) and sorts them into appropriate folders
Slick design
Compact
Good battery life
Video capability - very handy for Top Gear on the go or music videos
Podcasts
They continue to refine the use of the circular scroll-wheel, it's the best it has ever been.

The Bad:
iTunes is a resource hog, I've stopped using it
iTunes Music Store forces you to use AAC, their proprietary format if you download anything from them, although I think there are AAC to MP3 converters available.
iTunes will find any folders associated with Limewire, and although it will let you play from that folder, you can't actually add the music to your library or iPod. You have to move the files somewhere else to add them, not a big deal but kind of a pain.

The Ugly:
You are just one of millions of trendy Starbucks drinkers with iPods. Not exactly counter-culture


The Creative

The Good:
As you know, the computer treats it just like an external drive, so moving music is a snap
No proprietary BS

The Bad:
Larger size
Not as user-friendly when it comes to the interface
Less battery life (I think)
Smaller available storage (iPod is up to 80gb)

The Ugly:
Can't really think of anything ugly about the Creative players, but they are still playing catch-up to the iPod, as are everyone else.

Both are good players, but I prefer the iPod. Once I get past the initial set up I don't really synch it to my PC so iTunes is not really much of an issue beyond the initial setup hassle.

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by monkeymax

A bit of input from me; I had a Zen Nomad 20GB (the USB 2) Creative MP3 player (so the generation older than yours) which I retired 6 months ago for a fifth gen video iPod I got almost free with my MacBook Pro (student discount). I find the sound quality is better from the Zen (which is now 3.5 years old!) than it is from the iPod so I still use the Zen but it's plugged into the hi-fi.
It may be down to personal preference, but I've just found the Creatives to sound better.

iPod ships with crappy headphones, try replacing them with something decent. Also the iPod has many pre-programmed equalizer settings, try finding a setting for the type of music you listen to, it makes a big difference. Some of the problem may also be the headphone jack. In new equipment there is frequently a film on the metal of the headphone jack and plug which takes a little time to wear off. Usually you can speed it up by inserting and removing the plug a dozen or so times and rotating it around to wear through the residue. I've had this problem with everything from MP3 players, to cell phones, computers and even my PDA.

When using the same headphones I compared the same file at the same encoding on an iPod to a Creative I honestly couldn't tell the difference. I think they all use the same codecs anyway so the variables would be the encoding rate, headphones and equalizer settings.

[Dsemaj]

I've got a Creative Zen Vision:M, and I love it. The audio quality is great, the support for divx is useful, and the only bad thing is it's a bit thick. It's also got great video battery life, and as far as I know, much better than the iPod (I know it's 4 hours on the zen v 2 hours on the old iPod.

Beware though. The Zen scratches terribly, so it'd be wise to invest in a skin.

Agreed with the iPod headphones, they are shocking! I used my brothers iPod mini headphones on my Zen, and compared to the headphones you get with the Zen.. there's no competition. It sounds muffled and there's no clarity or anything.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Dsemaj

I've got a Creative Zen Vision:M, and I love it. The audio quality is great, the support for divx is useful, and the only bad thing is it's a bit thick. It's also got great video battery life, and as far as I know, much better than the iPod (I know it's 4 hours on the zen v 2 hours on the old iPod.

Beward though. The Zen scratches terribly, so it'd be wise to invest in a skin.

Whatever I buy will be living in a leather case with a belt clip, so that is not really a concern. Right now I am leaning HARD towards the Vision M, but I just wish I could see one up close before dropping my loot on it. I am happy with the thickness of my current player, so the new one is probably a tiny bit smaller... let me go see if I can find the specs on both!

[Dsemaj]

Originally Posted by Scott

Whatever I buy will be living in a leather case with a belt clip, so that is not really a concern. Right now I am leaning HARD towards the Vision M, but I just wish I could see one up close before dropping my loot on it. I am happy with the thickness of my current player, so the new one is probably a tiny bit smaller... let me go see if I can find the specs on both!

Hmmmm. Just be aware though, even having it in your pants (cotton) or whatever can put scratches on it. Mine lives in the little pouch you get with it But if you go to a department store or whatever, i'm sure they will have one on display that they can take out and let you play around with it. That's what I did prior to buying my Zen.

FYI, the Zen is about as thick as my phone (Sony Erricson T610) and a wee bit thicker than a standard DVD case, if that's any measure of the thickness.

[Blind_Io]

Originally Posted by Dsemaj

I've got a Creative Zen Vision:M, and I love it. The audio quality is great, the support for divx is useful, and the only bad thing is it's a bit thick. It's also got great video battery life, and as far as I know, much better than the iPod (I know it's 4 hours on the zen v 2 hours on the old iPod.

Beware though. The Zen scratches terribly, so it'd be wise to invest in a skin.

Agreed with the iPod headphones, they are shocking! I used my brothers iPod mini headphones on my Zen, and compared to the headphones you get with the Zen.. there's no competition. It sounds muffled and there's no clarity or anything.

Hate to break it to you, but according to the Apple website, if you take an 80 GB iPod and just set it to play and leave it alone the battery will last for 20 hours. For playing video you can expect 6.5 hours of playback.

Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

[monkeymax]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

iPod ships with crappy headphones, try replacing them with something decent. Also the iPod has many pre-programmed equalizer settings, try finding a setting for the type of music you listen to, it makes a big difference. Some of the problem may also be the headphone jack. In new equipment there is frequently a film on the metal of the headphone jack and plug which takes a little time to wear off. Usually you can speed it up by inserting and removing the plug a dozen or so times and rotating it around to wear through the residue. I've had this problem with everything from MP3 players, to cell phones, computers and even my PDA.

When using the same headphones I compared the same file at the same encoding on an iPod to a Creative I honestly couldn't tell the difference. I think they all use the same codecs anyway so the variables would be the encoding rate, headphones and equalizer settings.

Thanks for the advice. But my iPod headphones are still in the wrapper they came in, and still in the box. Never even used them. I started off with a set of Sony earbuds (that still get used from time to time) but upgraded to some Shure E2Cs in December. The difference was great. I've tried the iPod earphones from my Mum's iPod a couple of years back. That was enough of a lesson to me to not bother with mine when they came (my Mum's also haven't been used since!).
Having had the iPod for 6 months, the headphones have been in and out of the socket many dozens of times and swivelled a lot through normal use so I reckon that film would've been worn off by now.
I was least impressed by the equaliser on the iPod - I find I can hear distortion far too easily - even on a VBR MP3 encoded at a 256kbps average.
And on the same MP3, I can still hear a difference between the two MP3 players. (Creative and iPod) Granted it's not huge and my Mum's 4th gen iPod is worse, but there is a difference - again mostly the distortion issue. (and I'm talking distortion due to frequency here, not volume)

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Hate to break it to you, but according to the Apple website, if you take an 80 GB iPod and just set it to play and leave it alone the battery will last for 20 hours. For playing video you can expect 6.5 hours of playback.

Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

Yep, I've found this to be true. On my 60 Gig iPod I can easily get 18-20 hours of audio playback; actually that includes some video podcast playback as well. I've been very impressed with the battery life on the iPod.

[jeffy777]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Hate to break it to you, but according to the Apple website, if you take an 80 GB iPod and just set it to play and leave it alone the battery will last for 20 hours. For playing video you can expect 6.5 hours of playback.

Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

They must have really improved the battery life because the battery in my 30GB ipod video was toast after about 2 hours of video playback. Or do you have to dim the backlight down to get the 6.5 hours that you speak of?

Check out these screen comparisons: Zen Vision:M vs iPod Video:





The other cool thing about the Zen is that it "Supports many video file formats" while the ipod is much more limited.

[Dsemaj]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Hate to break it to you, but according to the Apple website, if you take an 80 GB iPod and just set it to play and leave it alone the battery will last for 20 hours. For playing video you can expect 6.5 hours of playback.

Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

I had a feeling they would have improved it for the new ones. Might not be like that in the real world, but if it's anything close to that, i'm impressed.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Creative Vision M, if i had to buy an MP3 player I'd get that one. My roommate has it, and its screen is noticeably better than the iPod's.

Personally, I'm a fan of pocket PC's. If you don't need eighty bajillion gigabytes of space, a PPC will have a much bigger, brighter screen, more uses, and changeable batteries. I use mine day in-day out and it's great. Watching Top Gear on a 4" VGA screen is worlds away from the tiny screens on the MP3 players.

[VR6]

If video isn't an issue what about the 8 gig ipod nano? Its about 1/4 the size of anything here, and if you do want to watch a video badly just load linux onto it.
I have had a 2 gig one for over a year now and no problems. Blind is right about the ipod headphones though they are terrible. Of all the bud style headphones I have tried the best are the ones that come with the sony psp, epic-ly loud and still crisp at a volume that hurts.

[Hidden_Hunter]

Originally Posted by Blind_Io

Hate to break it to you, but according to the Apple website, if you take an 80 GB iPod and just set it to play and leave it alone the battery will last for 20 hours. For playing video you can expect 6.5 hours of playback.

Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

Apple claim my 4th gen ipod should of had 12hours playback when new, it got a max of about 8 (both of them in fact, hdd died)

[Buktu]

One thing.. You don't have to use iTunes. I am using WinAmp. Since iTunes 7 refuses to function on my PC for some reason. It works great for syncing music, and with a plug-in you'll be able to transfer video as well..

I've got a 5.5g 30gb iPod as well. It's been great, i am really enjoying it. The interface is intuitive, designwise it's awesome (which is rather important to me), and it's really all you need. Plus you get to say you've got an iPod ;P I just fear that if i bought a Creative MP3 player like the ones mentioned here, i'd have to explain to people why i bought this that instead of an iPod. And that might end up seem pretty geeky Might just be the worries of a teenager i guess.

But buying an iPod is not just buying a MP3 player.. It's a fashion statement. I sound like an ad now, but it's true. Even if the Creative was very much superior to the iPod technically, i'd probably still buy the iPod. But since they're pretty equal technically, i'd chose an iPod any day.

But it all comes down to your priorities.

[Wizegui]

Ive tried to use the Creative but I found it confusing to use, like the LG Chocolate. Although I am not a big iPod fan (too many people who have ten songs have them), I would say get the iPod because of the looks and interface.