Warner Goes Blu-ray Exclusive

[edkwon]

Originally Posted by FATMOUSE

Mine came with no free movie.

The new 40 GB versions in the US come with a free copy of SpiderMan 3, the 60 Gb and 80 GB versions came with no free movie.

[chilicoke]

Originally Posted by FATMOUSE

Mine came with no free movie.

In US only the first batch of PS3s (both 60 & 20) came with Talladega Nights. Don't worry you're not missing much, transfer quality is only mid core at best.

Originally Posted by cvrefugee

True, but DVD hardware took forever to become cheaper. Remember when the PS2 came out in late-2000? It was a great deal at $299 (I bought one) because stand-alone DVD players were around $200 or so. I remember paying $400 for a Sony (how ironic) DVD player back in 1998. In 2003 I bought another Sony DVD player (we had three at one point) for $129. Only now do we see $50 units, ten years after I bought my first one.


So will it take another 10 years for Blu-Ray to get to $50? The Toshiba HD-A2 was selling for $100 all over the place a few months ago.

I see what you are saying, but what exactly are you comparing DVD's price history to? Both cassette tapes and CDs prices took quite some time to drop to a level everyone could afford, DVD's price drop was no slower than previous formats before it. New media formats have always been (and always will be) luxury items, and their introduction prices very clearly show that.

Just like many HDM enthusiasts, I was one of those people who jumped on Walmart's Toshiba HD-A2 sale (but wasn't fast enough to get one ). As much as I love A2's $89 sale price, it provided no evidence to future HD-DVD player prices if it wins the format war.

Firstly, although it was one week early, that price was a 1 day only Black Friday sale (biggest sale of the year) and it was only available at Warmart. Having personally experienced in retail, it is not uncommon for retailers to attract customers into their stores by taking huge losse on popular items, which is why door-buster items are almost always bottom-of-the-line models or outdated models being replaced by a new one. (both descriptions fit the Toshiba HD-A2)

Secondly, it was part of their marketing strategy in an effort to increase their user base. Blu-ray Association did so by offering buy one get one free on their movies and HD-DVD group cut prices to their lower-model players. We have no hard evidence that both sides are taking losses on these sales, but I'm sure we can easily agree it is an logical assumption. Theses sales were the result of desperation to gain market share, not voluntary.

With the given evidence, I have no reason to believe any HDM players would drop to $50 anytime soon, doesn't matter which side wins the format war. I just want it to end so we can spend more time enjoying movies in HD rather than deciding between formats.

[cdbob]

I honestly hate this format war, it hurts everyone, because eventually someone will lose and the companies that backed that format will go bankrupt and the people who bought the players will be out of pocket quite a bit of money.

[cvrefugee]

I bought my parents the Toshiba HD-A3 for $200 at Best Buy for Christmas. The main draw was 10 free movies (two in the box, three you pick from the store, and five come in the mail). When I bought my HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 in 2006 I got King Kong for free. Then I got in on the B1G1F deal on Amazon a few weeks ago, paid $20 for another two movies. That means we own 13 HD-DVDs, 11 were free.

I stopped buying DVDs a long time ago when I realized I never watch them more than once. Netflix is the best choice for me, but now with all the movie studios choosing Blu-Ray I'll be stuck watching the same 13 movies.

[chaos386]

Originally Posted by cvrefugee

Netflix is the best choice for me, but now with all the movie studios choosing Blu-Ray I'll be stuck watching the same 13 movies.

Or you could just, you know, buy a Blu-Ray player once they come down in price. Microsoft said one of the reasons for having the HD-DVD drive separate was so they weren't locked into any one format, so who knows? Maybe they'll release a Blu-Ray drive for the 360 soon.

[superswamper]

Originally Posted by hokiethang

The race is still up in the air. The allegiances, as they stand now:

Sony, Warner, Lionsgate, Fox, Disney: Blu-ray
Universal, Paramount, The Weinstein Company: HD-DVD
New Line Cinema, HBO, First Look Studios, Image Entertainment (including the Discovery Channel), Magnolia Pictures, Brentwood Home Video, Ryko,and Koch/Goldhil Entertainment: Both

And to be fair, Sony wasn't the only company behind the Blu-ray format. List from Wikipedia

I personally have both formats (PS3 and Xbox HD-DVD Drive), and i've accepted one of them is going to be the equivalent of a laserdisc in a couple of years, but it will be good while it lasts. Region locking sucks unfortunately most studios want it, and are willing to support a format that's going to give it to them

I really hope digital distribution finally takes off, and puts an end to these petty format wars

To add to the discussion, it looks like Paramount is leaning to Blu-ray also.

How many "death blows" will it take for Blu-ray to finally win the format war against HD DVD? I've been hearing that phrase (and writing about it) since July 2007. Well here comes another one. Following in the footsteps of Warner Brothers' abandonment of the HD DVD format, reports are surfacing that Paramount is headed to Blu-ray as well.

This is huge news not just because it would leave just one major studio (Universal, plus the mini-major DreamWorks) producing HD DVD content. It would mark the first time in the high-def war that a studio has abandoned one exclusive format and switched to another. Warner was producing both HD DVD and Blu-ray discs and merely dropped the HD DVD ones. Paramount will have to switch entirely to Blu-ray, which it has not been producing up to now.

According to the Financial Times, Paramount has a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp allowing it to switch to Blu-ray in the event that Warner was to do so. And exercising that clause is what's about to happen. It's also theorized that DreamWorks will follow Paramount, since the studios are closely tied together.

Nothing's been announced yet, but this should be wrapped up in fairly short order. Stay tuned.

Source: http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/64393

[hokiethang]

I think the Financial Times jumped the gun on that story. Paramount has come out recently and said their "current plan" is to stay with HD-DVD. They did say "current plan" so take that how you want to take it.

[chilicoke]

I agree, Paramount's decision should be interesting. On the other hand, New Line, unsurprisingly, is following their parent company to the Blu side.

Confirming earlier reports that it would follow Warner to Blu-ray exclusivity, New Line says its first HD DVD title ('Pan's Labyrinth') will also be its last.

Though it was widely assumed that New Line (whose parent company is Time-Warner) would follow Warner Home Video's lead and continue to release on HD DVD through May 2008, a company rep tells us that New Line's move will go into immediate effect, with all of the studio's planned HD DVD releases now cancelled (including the HD DVD versions of current Blu-ray releases 'Hairspray' and 'Rush Hour 3,' which had previously been planned for HD DVD release sometime in early 2008 ).

As for 'Pan's Labyrinth,' which hit stores late last year as the first (and only) New Line HD DVD release, the studio says that once current retail supplies are depleted, the title will be discontinued -- making it an instant collector's item.

New Line says it's not planning to issue an official press release trumpeting the move, ending its short-lived HD DVD support with a relative whimper.

The studio also tells us they won't be revealing any new Blu-ray titles at CES, though they do plan to continue to support the format throughout 2008 with a variety of new release and catalog titles to be announced in the future.

As always, we'll keep you posted...

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...o_Blu-ray/1351

I hope those "new titles" include Lord of the Rings

[Speedtouch]

I think HD DVD was doomed from the start. Microsoft took too long to release the HD DVD Xbox 360 drive, and with the £400 PS3 Blu-Ray player now only £300 you have a recipe for win.

I never believed in the HD DVD. At my local games store (now a clothes store - the bastards) they had a display cabinet for Blu-Rays. And not a single HD DVD on premises.

[cvrefugee]

+ YouTube Video

[chilicoke]

huge props to whoever did the subtitles, they match the video perfectly

[chilicoke]

here's the result of Warner's announcement:

We must say we didn't see this coming, sure we knew the Warner announcement would have some impact on the Nielsen VideoScan numbers, courtesy of Home Media Magazine, but who would've guessed the spread would be 85/15 (5.7:1)? What is just as telling is the top ten chart, which despite having six titles on it that are also available on HD DVD, not one HD DVD made the list for the first time since we can remember, -- first time ever? To be fair, we should point out that HD DVD didn't have any blockbusters in the past few weeks and as we've seen many times, a big exclusive title like 3:10 to Yuma can give both sides a surge. But with no big titles on the calendar in the next few months for red, we wouldn't be surprised if these crazily lopsided sales become the norm. We do wonder how long HD DVD will stay the course if they can't even garner 20% of the movie sales market.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/18...uary/#comments

[GTV V6]

I must put forward my point of view here, speaking from a Replicator's point of view...

I'm in charge of an entire disc manufacturing plant.

We have 4 CD lines and 4 DVD lines.

Of the 4 DVD lines, 1 is HD-DVD capable.

At the end of the month we are taking out the oldest DVD line and putting in a new HD-DVD line. So we will have 2 HD-DVD lines.

The thing is that Blue ray is a complete pain in the arse, a current DVD line from the market leader (Singulus, look it up) can make DVD & HD-DVD without problems.

Blu-ray needs a complete new machine.

In Europe, the majority of fabricators cannot justify the expence of new line for a format that may or maynot be the next big thing. A new line that can do both DVD and HD-DVD is easier to justify.

[chaos386]

Originally Posted by GTV V6

I must put forward my point of view here, speaking from a Replicator's piont of view...

I'm in charge of an entire disc manufacturing plant.

We have 4 CD lines and 4 DVD lines.

Of the 4 DVD lines, 1 is HD-DVD capable.

At the end of the month we are taking out the oldest DVD line and putting in a new HD-DVD line. So we will have 2 HD-DVD lines.

The thing is that Blue ray is a complete pain in the arse, a current DVD line from the market leader (Singulus, look it up) can make DVD & HD-DVD without problems.

Blu-ray needs a complete new machine.

In Europe, the majority of fabricators cannot justify the expence of new line for a format that may or maynot be the next big thing. A new line that can do both DVD and HD-DVD is easier to justify.

How much are the costs once the machine has been purchased? Do Blu-Ray discs cost any more to manufacture, or is it just the fact that they need their own machine?

[GTV V6]

We're not talking little machines here.

The machine we're installing next week is worth nearly 1M Euros.

But as I said it can make both DVD & HD-DVD

As far as I know there are only 4 factories with dedicated Blu-Ray machines in Europe, but it's a big comitment.

If Blu-Ray takes off, then it will be worthwhile, but there will still be a HUGE installed base of machines that can make both DVD & HD-DVD

As far as replicators go, HD-DVD is by far the easiest of the 2 formats.

Another thing... The biggest maker of lines (Singulus, see above) has a contract with Sony to develop Blu-Ray lines, they win both ways.

As far as they are concerned, Blu-Ray FTW, lots of new lines to sell.

[chaos386]

Originally Posted by GTV V6

We're not talking little machines here.

The machine we're installing next week is worth nearly 1M Euros.

But as I said it can make both DVD & HD-DVD

As far as I know there are only 4 factories with dedicated Blu-Ray machines in Europe, but it's a big comitment.

If Blu-Ray takes off, then it will be worthwhile, but there will still be a HUGE installed base of machines that can make both DVD & HD-DVD

As far as replicators go, HD-DVD is by far the easiest of the 2 formats.

Another thing... The biggest maker of lines (Singulus, see above) has a contract with Sony to develop Blu-Ray lines, they win both ways.

As far as they are concerned, Blu-Ray FTW, lots of new lines to sell.

I understand that the machines themselves are very expensive and so the total cost of making Blu-Ray discs at the moment is pretty high, but I was just wondering what the relative running costs of the machines were since Blu-Ray discs are of a different construction than DVD and HD-DVD discs. That is, once the purchase of the machine is done, which disc costs more to produce? I remember hearing claims early on in the format wars that Blu-Ray discs were more expensive initially due to needing new machines, but that their construction allowed for cheaper per-disc costs, thus making them cheaper in the long run, and I was wondering if there's any truth to that.

[GTV V6]

As I understand the state of play at the moment (I may be wrong), as I said above, a Current DVD line (from Singulus) can make 2 layer DVD & 2 layer HD-DVD.

To make Blu-Ray, you need a complete new line that can only make that format. i.e. can't make normal DVDs.

As far as running costs go, Blu-Ray "shouldn't" be too diferent to HD-DVD except for the specifications.

As I don't have a Blu-Ray machine at the moment, I'm reluctant to speculate on the "Blu-Ray Book", but reading the specs. , it seems REALLY difficult to keep to spec. compared to HD-DVD so the yield will be lower.

Material wise, I don't imagine Blu-Ray would be too different to the normal 1.2mm "standard" that applies to CD, DVD & HD-DVD.

Yield-wise (% of good discs made), I'm not sure.

To sum up... Ask me again in 6 nonths

[chilicoke]

thanks for the inside information GTV V6, some of what you said are definitely new to me.

[Hidden_Hunter]

I would of thought europeans would of prefered HD-DVD over BLU-RAY as well because of the aforementioned region locking

[chilicoke]

My guess would be the majority of the consumers are not tech savvy enough to understand the benefit of no-region coding. What's more important is how the product is presented to customers.

I found this post over on Engadget's page very interesting.

There's a VERY INTERESTING post by menotbug at Crave that might be worth sharing on why Blu-ray succeeded and HD-DVD failed:

"As someone who is an auditor for the movie studios in the largest retail store in the country, I can give some simple reasons for why Blu-Ray, to those in retail, always had an edge over HD-DVD. While HD-DVD was a cheaper, more straightforward/consumer friendly format, Blu-Ray, especially with its backing from Disney, was simply more savvy in its advertisement and product placement.

Here are some examples:
- The Blu-Ray Consortium (BRC) paid the retailer I work for to secure preferential placement. HD-DVD was relegated to a lower traffic area. This was implemented nation-wide.
- The BRC also was the first to, in this same retailer, rent space in the TV department specifically for a Blu-Ray display. HD-DVD acted late, and thus, was only able to, again, secure secondary product placement.
- The BRC also was first, and in this case alone, in renting out fixtures in the retailers' DVD department to showcase Blu-Ray product. In support of this, the BRC also paid my company to have us audit and ensure the merchandising of these fixtures on a weekly basis, with more time being spent during high sales times (holidays, etc.).

HD-DVD sorely fell behind on the merchandising side of things. I can only assume that they were foolish enough to think that consumers would, in today's society, be technologically savvy enough to realize the better and cheaper format would be HD-DVD. The BRC quickly realized that this was not the case, and that, as it has been for ages, consumers can be swayed with fancy but useless options that they will never need or use.

By realizing this, the BRC moved quickly to win the battle at an individual store level. Our company was eventually even contracted to Blu-Ray demonstrations for this same retailer nation-wide. These demonstrations were done for the store employees during the week and for customers during the high traffic times of the weekend. HD-DVD never contracted any outside vendor to do anything similar, nor did they ever send out their own representatives. They assumed the hardware would sell itself, and they assumed wrong.

By winning the battle at the store level, Blu-Ray was able to maintain a constant presence that HD-DVD only made an attempt at once it was too late. Blu-Ray's visibility, along with the lack of visibility for HD-DVD, severely influenced the sales representatives that interacted directly with the consumers. Too few of the consumers, along with the retailers' employees, were tech. savvy enough to realize that HD-DVD would be better in the long run. Sure, you may have less features and disk space, but the features and extra space are mainly cosmetic to begin with; the consumer would benefit far more from the cheaper cost of both hardware ad software. Nevertheless, by overwhelmingly winning the PR campaign, Blu-Ray clearly separated itself from HD-DVD. In my opinion, the tide turned when Disney sided with Blu-Ray.

Disney has the most thorough and ruthless PR people on the planet; unfortunately, those two traits allow them to take advantage of those who only listen to advertising. Which, as Apple has also proven, is those who have lots of money, but spend so much effort earning it that they only know what the salesperson tells them when they make a technology purchase.

Again, this is not to say that the way Blu-Ray won was ethical or appropriate, only that these are the facts that have led to our current result. It's sad, but at the same time, this should be a lesson for anyone thinking about implementing new technology: if you are creating a proprietary format, marketing and product placement, especially at store level, is crucial. Hopefully companies that actually desire to retail quality/cost-effective products will realize this some day."

<link, post>

I'm not sure where that person is located, but it is exactly the same situation here in Southern California, almost no presence everywhere. In fact, IMO HD-DVD's marketing is almost laughable, take their promotional ads for an example: http://gizmodo.com/340069/hype-sheet...ll-the-marbles