[02x08] September 18, 2011

[bryanbeachboy1970]

Oh, for Christ's sake indeed. Another derailing. And after Simmers was good enough to drop it to stay on topic. Sheesh!

Anyway, who wants to bet that the General Lee is Tanner's car? He was lead stunt driver for the movie...

And as long as we're betting, I'd pick KITT (if the Trans Am means what I think it does) as Rut's car.

So the mystery third car? My guess is Christine, from the eponymous movie, as Adam's car. This would be the only car I could think of that would match his 'Wrecker' persona.

Just guesses, but I feel pretty confident about the first one.

[The Spie]

Why are we trying to guess the cars? TG.com's already told us who has what. I won't print it here (Spoilers!), but I will say, Bryan, that you have gone 0 for 4.

Ah, screw it...

Rutledge has KITT, Adam has the General Lee, and Tanner has a FauxLorean.

[alclark]

I think everyone will like this bit as well:

The Stig cameos as a baddy in a “bad-as-in-good” Camaro SS.

And, we're getting the WRX STi vs dirt bike that was originally slated for 2x06.

[TopGearNorthAmerica]

Why are we trying to guess the cars? TG.com's already told us who has what. I won't print it here (Spoilers!), but I will say, Bryan, that you have gone 0 for 4.

Ah, screw it...

Rutledge has KITT, Adam has the General Lee, and Tanner has a FauxLorean.

Actually, that makes sense. Adam will always go "big American muscle." Cars with computerized dashes and voices match with Rut's geek rep (I wonder if he'll put in a GPS with William Daniels' voice?), and Tanner does have a Michael J Fox look going for him.

[Gyvon]

Maybe Tanner will be in the one that was on Auction Kings a while ago.

[simbaleo]

Fair enough, but the drivers of most gas-guzzling, unnecessary, raising-my-gas-prices-while-not-compensating-for-the-small-penis-of-the-operator pickups that have it emblazoned across their rear windows or flying proudly from their beds will likely refer to it as the "Stars and Bars."

I never cease to be amused by the tendency of the truly idiotic to show their true colors, as it were, when given enough rope to do so. Turns out your problem with the Battle Flag has crap all to do with implications of slavery, but rather that's simply a convenient excuse to use while striving for the moral high ground against the people you really hate. Those evil southern people.

I'm shocked, shocked to find that you're yet another hand-wringing idealist without the first damn clue what he's talking about.

By the way, before you blame those eeeevil gas-guzzlers for "your gas prices", you may want to do a little research into this weird thing called "supply and demand", and an overview of how futures markets work wouldn't hurt either. Here's a tip: If the majority of people drove useless hippy boxes around, bleating about how they're saving the planet, we would use much less fuel. As a result, in a relatively short amount of time, you'd be paying somewhere around $40/gallon for it.

I've no doubt that particular fact is at odds with your mental image of the eeeevil oil company executive, twirling his moustaches while pulling ever-higher fuel prices out of his butt.

[Ryotsu]

I'm not going to argue about how some people seem to see southerners as a bunch of rednecks. Partly because this isn't the place, and partly because most people who like the General Lee are, at least a little bit, redneck themselves. The General Lee is one of the great symbols of Redneckdom, which is why I think it'll make a great addition to the group. I would also like to see a James Bond Aston, and because they probably have Aston Martin replica cars around, it might not be ruinously expensive.

Simmers, thank you very much for dropping it, but please don't fall prey to any else trying to get one last word in. I realized too late that my previous post was edging into off-topicness, so I say sorry.

Also, Adams choice is a good one, as he seems to like jumping over/running in to things a lot.

[t_simmers_jr]

I can't believe I have to do this, but I do...

Turns out your problem with the Battle Flag has crap all to do with implications of slavery, but rather that's simply a convenient excuse to use while striving for the moral high ground against the people you really hate. Those evil southern people.

I'm shocked, shocked to find that you're yet another hand-wringing idealist without the first damn clue what he's talking about.

It has everything to do with the god-fearing, muddled-in-"tradition", this land is OUR land view of the stereotypical (and, unfortunately, also just typical) southerner. I have been through the South many times, and aside from the very occasional bout of southern hospitality one may be so fortunate to experience, it's a rather insufferable place to be. But, you're right, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Speaking of people who have no idea what they're talking about...

By the way, before you blame those eeeevil gas-guzzlers for "your gas prices", you may want to do a little research into this weird thing called "supply and demand", and an overview of how futures markets work wouldn't hurt either. Here's a tip: If the majority of people drove useless hippy boxes around, bleating about how they're saving the planet, we would use much less fuel. As a result, in a relatively short amount of time, you'd be paying somewhere around $40/gallon for it.

The current largest contributors to gas prices being what they are are refining capacity and government taxation. It has nothing to do with people keeping demand up by driving pointlessly oversized vehicle. If you actually knew anything about supply and demand, you'd know that. A truck that gets 12-17 mpg will create a higher demand than a car which gets 25-35. When the supply can be influenced very little without building additional refineries -- which oil companies are slow to do given the somewhat uncertain nature of their ability to recover such costs when they can simply raise prices and make more money -- the demand is what drives the price. You're $40/gallon claim is laughable (actually the only part of your entire post that's even remotely entertaining), and speaks volumes about your ability to grasp the difference between "facts" and "propaganda". I would actually be happy paying what we currently pay for gas -- hell, I'd be happy to pay twice what we currently pay -- if only the money was going to fund research and development on alternative energy so that we could ween ourselves off of the need for crude oil in all its forms. But as long as "those evil southern people" insist that their traditional way of life is necessary and their states take on that horrid red hue any time a political map gets produced, we can remain quite certain that the money will instead be going to pay for lobbyists and things remaining pretty much what they always were. This, in turn, bring about my mental image, as you so adeptly point out...

I've no doubt that particular fact is at odds with your mental image of the eeeevil oil company executive, twirling his moustaches while pulling ever-higher fuel prices out of his butt.

Except I know that the prices are not pulled out of their butt. They're created by the allowances of the capitalist system in which we live. A system which I'm fully in support of as long as our government is doing what it needs to ensure that the system does not get out of hand.

Thanks for so cleverly reading my mind, though.

And yes, to everyone sitting there thinking, "Oh shit, not again. Doesn't this asshole ever shut up?" I get it. I understand that the previous post took us entirely too far off topic. When the tangential nature of the discussion made it questionably relevant to the topic of the show earlier, I was willing to bow out. I am merely, at this point, defending the assumptions being made about me. I apologize, but I'm not going to allow some random, misguided, educated-only-enough-to-know-big-words-but-not-enough-to-know-how-to-use-them troll come along and put words in my mouth to paint me as some bleeding-heart liberal who is out to make the world a haven for sunshine and flowers.

I never cease to be amused by the tendency of the truly idiotic to show their true colors, as it were, when given enough rope to do so.

I always cease to be amused by the idiotic. Unfortunately, I also never cease to be amazed by their sheer numbers. True colors, indeed.

[Ryotsu]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!



WHY!? You know what? seriously? The next derailment gets neg rep from me.

[t_simmers_jr]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

WHY!? You know what? seriously? The next derailment gets neg rep from me.

I'll concede fault on this one. I had started typing a response, left the computer, and returned, thus did not see your preceding post. I do, to some extent, agree it has become about getting the last word in. You seem, at some level, to get the point I'm trying to make, even if you don't understand the fervor with which I feel the need to make it.

So, yeah, moving on......

[Ryotsu]

I'll concede fault on this one. I had started typing a response, left the computer, and returned, thus did not see your preceding post. I do, to some extent, agree it has become about getting the last word in. You seem, at some level, to get the point I'm trying to make, even if you don't understand the fervor with which I feel the need to make it.

So, yeah, moving on......

Thank you very much. I know what you're saying, I know some people who are of the same opinion. What do you think of the other cars? Personally, I think they were all perfect matches for the hosts.

Tanner loves the 80's, Rut is geeky, and Adam likes smashing things. Tanner has already expressed a love for affordable but slightly underpowered mid engined cars from the 80's. I'm REALLY REALLY hoping that Adam tries to jump the General Lee over something.

[jasoos]

Debate about things not car-related

And this is why TG US will never feel free to push the envelope as far as TG UK because the debate/criticism will happen before the show instead of the other way around.

[t_simmers_jr]

And this is why TG US will never feel free to push the envelope as far as TG UK because the debate/criticism will happen before the show instead of the other way around.

It's about pushing the envelope with a purpose -- as TGUK usually does -- and not pushing it without a purpose -- as is my reason for this entire "debate". It's not like I'm out to change the world or be the fly in everyone's ointment. I actually want the American version to get to the point where it has the kind of clout/freedom that the British version does, but they're going to need to show some sort of ability to monitor themselves in doing so. Granted, I have not seen the episode yet, but unless Tanner and Rut spend the episode making caustic and targeted jokes about Adam's outfit not being white enough or his vast plantation with his "hired" help, I don't see how they're going to pull this off without deeply offending a group which wasn't asking for it.

I spent last night watching 'Blazing Saddles' with friends. I maintain it is one of the funniest movies ever, and it pushes the envelope more in two hours than TGUK has in 17 seasons. The difference is that Mel Brooks established himself as over-the-top before he got to the point of making such films, and openly support human rights in every respect, much as TGUK has done. TGUS has not done that yet. I sincerely want them to, though.

[bryanbeachboy1970]

I will say, Bryan, that you have gone 0 for 4.

Curses! Foiled again!

I spent last night watching 'Blazing Saddles' with friends. I maintain it is one of the funniest movies ever, and it pushes the envelope more in two hours than TGUK has in 17 seasons. The difference is that Mel Brooks established himself as over-the-top before he got to the point of making such films, and openly support human rights in every respect, much as TGUK has done. TGUS has not done that yet. I sincerely want them to, though.

I agree about Blazing Saddles, NO ONE has the balls to make that movie these days. And it wasn't just Mel Brooks, Richard Pryor had a hand in it as well. Two cutting edge talents making an iconic movie.

But I disagree that Top Gear US should 'push the envelope'. The producers aren't out to change the world with this show, they're trying to make money. In the UK, I get the impression that being a bit controversial is no big deal when it comes to political or social commentary, but here in America where we seem to have little sense of humor about such things, it becomes a very big deal (as this thread illustrates). So, IMHO, please keep TGUS to car-related humor and some flag-wavin' shenanigans. If they want to support some social thing, keep it car-related (for example, TGUK showcasing the injured vet Dakar Rally team).

Oil prices? Really? How about this little nugget: China is the #2 oil consumer in the world after the US; 10 years ago, they were #3 and their consumption was half what it was today. A country with 1 billion people, with a middle class that will soon dwarf the entire US population. And then we have India, another 1 billion society that is also starting to boom. Apart from fuel, pure industry alone is going to drive world-wide oil demand even higher than it is now.

And the answer isn't hybrids, or higher fuel-economy standards. It isn't even hydrogen. No my friends, the answer is cloning technology. We need to clone dinosaurs, and clone them NOW! Then kill'em, bury'em, and convert'em to new oil. There is absolutely no reason why oil can't be a renewable resource!

[ApexOversteer]

Anyone who grouses at the use of The General Lee is uninformed.

Lets not even mention the constant and ever-present use of racial slurs, epithets and general xenophobic attitude of Missers Clarkson, May and Hammond, three of the most racist, nationalist and xenophobic presenters on TV. I mean, it is part of why we love them, so we're supposed to give them a pass, but not Rut, Adam and the little one?

Instead lets mention that Robert E. Lee was vocally opposed to slavery. Lets mention that, before the war, he funded efforts to free slaves, supported the illegal education of slaves, and strongly advised the state legislature of Virginia to remain part of The Union.

Lets mention that he was and is considered an American hero for his efforts post-war to use his fame and respect on both sides to ease tensions between those he had fought against and those he had fought with.

Those that equate Robert E, Lee the man with racism and slavery are ignorant of the truth about the man, the war, and the reunification of the US.


Finally, The General Lee is AMERICAN and the use of the Confederate battleflag constitutes FREE SPEECH.

Seriously, if people would stop complaining about perceived injustice and slavery and actually did something about actual injustice and slavery, maybe there wouldn't be slave kids making your sneakers in China.

[bryanbeachboy1970]

Really?! We're still doing this?! Apex, you're reasoning stinks of simplicity: http://radgeek.com/gt/2005/01/03/rob...ended-slavery/

Please keep to the thread.

[erick295]

I just want to say that despite all of my complaining in other threads, this is one "cheap car challenge" I can get behind. I think this is going to be a spectacular episode

I just wish they had gotten a REAL DeLorean but I guess those are pretty hard to come by these days

By the way, if I know anyone at all who cares about that flag, they haven't told me. We're over that whole Civil War thing down here since none of us were actually alive when it happened. I think all ya'll haters are just jealous of our weather -- better get your thermal undies out you Yanks, October's coming!

[Gyvon]

I just want to say that despite all of my complaining in other threads, this is one "cheap car challenge" I can get behind. I think this is going to be a spectacular episode

Considering how rare an actual '69 Charger is (because they kept wrecking them while filming), I doubt this is a "cheap car" episode.

P.S. The commercial for the episode is out. I'm not bothering with spoiler tags for the cars anymore.

[t_simmers_jr]

By the way, if I know anyone at all who cares about that flag, they haven't told me. We're over that whole Civil War thing down here since none of us were actually alive when it happened. I think all ya'll haters are just jealous of our weather -- better get your thermal undies out you Yanks, October's coming!

I've spent plenty of time in and south of the ATL. You can keep your hot- and humid-ass summers and hurricanes. The difference between northerners and southerners is that we don't start crying when the weather drops below freezing, we don't act like it's a day of mourning the first day of the year we have to put on a jacket, and we know how to drive in rain/snow/sleet/etc. without clogging up the roadways.

In short, we have no reason to be jealous.

[bryanbeachboy1970]

We get both hot summers and cold winters here on the Plains with no hurricanes (though we do get those pesky tornadoes, just ask the people over the border in Joplin, MO). I'm not sure the north can say they are hurricane-free Simmers!

A DeLorean?! I know some people are bigger fans of the movies than I am, but really? I think it's because Tanner is McFly-sized...

The poor Charger, doomed to appear in a (let's be honest here) crappy TV show and to be sacrificed by the hundreds for ratings...