Legality of downloading

[markus123]

Hello I live in the U.S. and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the legality of downloading tv shows like top gear through bit torrent clients? It seems like it should be legal because you could just record the show onto a dvr just as easily, but then again I don't live in England and don't receive the show. Just kind of curious.

[VR6]

It's not the same as recording a show here in the states because the ads are what pay for the show, In the U.K the people pay for a BBC license in order to watch bbc programming which includes top gear. To answer your quesiton yes it is illegal to download the torrent, but next time try the search, I belive this quesiton has been asked before.

[Vette Boss]

Downloading the torrents is still strictly speaking, illegal. The BBC, however, has a common sense stance on the matter, they realise that they're not actually losing money to foreign (to the UK) downloaders and that trying to control it is a pointless waste of everyone's money and time.

[Red_Bull]

Originally Posted by markus123

It seems like it should be legal because you could just record the show onto a dvr just as easily...

Thats also illegal in many countries. Its just that nobody bothers to enforce it because presumably, it would be too huge a job.

[epp_b]

markus123: You're right, it should be legal, but the US is just so screwed up with their BS copyright laws.

[upyourego]

Originally Posted by markus123

It seems like it should be legal because you could just record the show onto a dvr just as easily.

In the UK the law states you can record something for your own personal use and keep it for up to 21 Days - after that time you're supposed to delete or destroy the recording and you're also NOT allowed to give the recording to anyone else.

That basically means it's illegal for somebody in the UK to post Top Gear online for other people to download if they've recorded it.

As for the legality - the Beeb turns a blind eye, they know it's a near impossibility to enforce it BUT when they launch the international version of the iPlayer expect them to start coming down harder on Torrent sites as they WILL technically be losing money if they're selling the show online themselves.

[epp_b]

They're only going to be losing money because they're going with a broken business model. Illegal it may be, morally wrong, no.

[Red_Bull]

Originally Posted by epp_b

They're only going to be losing money because they're going with a broken business model. Illegal it may be, morally wrong, no.

Thats interesting. Do you think companies such as The Beeb, RIAA, MPAA etc should embrace the internet technologies as a means of generating revenue through sales? I'm not talking about iTunes or DRM, but Torrents and the like. At the moment they're not utilising these resources effectively and its polarising customers.

[epp_b]

Do you think companies such as The Beeb, RIAA, MPAA etc should embrace the internet technologies as a means of generating revenue through sales?

Why not? This iPlayer thing is the same as any other half-hearted, dimwitted attempt at online revenue generation: lousy quality content with DRM that turns your computer against you.

[Paul]

There are Top Gear showing in my area but it is the edited 30 minute show. So it is pretty dull. I want to see the original one. If they show the original here, i would not even come here.

[toma_alimosh]

Well, I download the show in the original format, but I'm subscribed to BBC Canada, which shows 45 minute versions of the show, so what am I stealing here? The news and celebrity segments?

In any case, in Canada, you can download all the copyright infringement you want, it's uploading copyrighted things that's illegal here. So you download from places that don't respect copyright laws ... hehe.

[epp_b]

Well, I download the show in the original format, but I'm subscribed to BBC Canada, which shows 45 minute versions of the show, so what am I stealing here? The news and celebrity segments?

Firstly, it's not "stealing" (I know that you're just using the generally accepted term). "Stealing" content is like "stealing" fire. Nobody is being physically deprived of anything, in fact, your only making it stronger.

In any case, in Canada, you can download all the copyright infringement you want, it's uploading copyrighted things that's illegal here. So you download from places that don't respect copyright laws ... hehe.

True! But, keep an eye on things in this respect (www.michaelgeist.com, www.copyrightwatch.ca and www.digital-copyright.ca are good places to stay up to date with) and make sure your MP is informed to maintain this (at least partially) common sense approach.

[Red_Bull]

Originally Posted by epp_b

Firstly, it's not "stealing" (I know that you're just using the generally accepted term). "Stealing" content is like "stealing" fire. Nobody is being physically deprived of anything, in fact, your only making it stronger.

Hehe, yup. The recording companies etc claim to have lost billions through people illegally downloading their content. Sorry but no. They've lost nothing.

[Peter3hg]

Originally Posted by epp_b

Why not? This iPlayer thing is the same as any other half-hearted, dimwitted attempt at online revenue generation: lousy quality content with DRM that turns your computer against you.

The quality is supposed to be very good, as good as VUK's rips. Also the Beeb have absolutely no choice but to include DRM, it's not up to them.

[epp_b]

Also the Beeb have absolutely no choice but to include DRM, it's not up to them.

Um...how's that? Doesn't the BBC "own" Top Gear and their shows?

[B33R]

Originally Posted by vladmitu

Well, I download the show in the original format, but I'm subscribed to BBC Canada, which shows 45 minute versions of the show, so what am I stealing here? The news and celebrity segments?

In any case, in Canada, you can download all the copyright infringement you want, it's uploading copyrighted things that's illegal here. So you download from places that don't respect copyright laws ... hehe.

thats a cool law...we got the same system here in the netherlands... i love it my top gear episodes(all episodes of all seasons + all specials + Jeremy Clarkson movies) collection and it is 100% legal

[upyourego]

Originally Posted by epp_b

Um...how's that? Doesn't the BBC "own" Top Gear and their shows?

Yes they own Top Gear but they don't own the music used in the show, they don't own certain images used in the show, there might be freelancers working on an episode that would be due repeat fees.

I've mentioned this so many times I can't be arsed to type the reason out in full again - basically the BBC have been told by the various UK rights bodies, indie producers, the BBC Trust, OfCom etc that if they want to put video online they have to put time limited DRM on it.

And the iPlayer isn't being built for an international audience as a primary function - it's being built to give the UK audience a way of catching up on shows broadcast on the BBC (any TV or radio station) for FREE.

BBC Worldwide is looking at launching an international version of the iPlayer that will allow people outside of the UK to 'legally' download and watch BBC shows for a fee.

It might not be illegal to download a show where you live, it might not be stealing but it IS immoral - somebody has put time, effort and money into producing television content surely they're due some form of reward from you for providing you with entertainment.

[BillyV8]

Thought I'd sign up and post on this.

I don't think it's immoral, at least in my situation. I have no alternative, so if I didn't download it, I wouldn't be able to watch it, period. So, what's the difference? The BBC wouldn't get money out of me no matter what I did.

Now if I was able to purchase / subscribe to a channel that carried it, then that'd be different as I was opting to download for free rather than pay them for their work.

[upyourego]

Originally Posted by BillyV8

Thought I'd sign up and post on this.

I don't think it's immoral, at least in my situation. I have no alternative, so if I didn't download it, I wouldn't be able to watch it, period. So, what's the difference? The BBC wouldn't get money out of me no matter what I did.

Now if I was able to purchase / subscribe to a channel that carried it, then that'd be different as I was opting to download for free rather than pay them for their work.

Billy mate let me buy you a drink - you've hit the nail on the head and smacked it through the plank!

That is exactly the point I was trying to make but didn't mention the 'if available' bit.

Basically if there is a commercial alternative to downloading it for free (see many posts on the iPlayer) then you should be prepared to pay for it.

[Bizness]

Well without it ppl like me in Canada would not be able to see TG...

Huge thanks to Viper and VUK and everyone else involved....