Legality of downloading - Page 2

epp_b · February 27th, 2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

It might not be illegal to download a show where you live, it might not be stealing but it IS immoral

It doesn't matter if time and effort has been put into. I may put some time and effort into building a campfire, but if you come over from your campsite with a piece of wood to light it with my fire, have you "stolen" my fire? Of course not.

Any value I might put onto my fire is only imaginary and arbitrary.

KaJuN · February 27th, 2007, 05:48 PM

This really wouldn't be an issue if copyrights were being how they were meant to be; protecting ideas and works of people instead of the money of corporations. The **AA's seem to have little respect for the people they're supposedly protecting. Why should those entities be shown any respect by the general public?

damnhawk · February 27th, 2007, 05:51 PM

^werd.

upyourego · February 27th, 2007, 06:06 PM

I think you're missing the point completely - the BBC spends a MASSIVE amount of money on each episode of Top Gear - if it wasn't for the fact that everyone in the UK pays towards the corporation the show wouldn't get made.

The same applies to commercial broadcasters - if they don't spend the money to make the show then the show doesn't get made.

To get the money to spend on making the show in the first place they need to either sell advertising around that show or sell it to people.

If everyone took your attitude and nobody watched adverts or paid to watch a show then the money wouldn't be there to make it, it wouldn't get made and you wouldn't be able to download it for free off the net.

Until we live in a world where everyone is equal, money doesn't exist and we all create things for the love of creating them - the farmer produces food for himself and what's left is given to the people for free - someone has to pay for the content.

The point I make is - if there's a commercial version, a version put out by the broadcaster for you to buy then you should be prepared to pay for something someone else has had to PAY to make.

If, as is the current situation, there isn't a commercial version - feel free to download it from any location you can find.

TomCat · February 27th, 2007, 06:23 PM

I think you're missing the point. If no money is lost, where is the harm?

upyourego · February 27th, 2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCat

I think you're missing the point. If no money is lost, where is the harm?

But that's what I said at the end - if there is no commercial version for sale then go ahead and download it.

The point I'm making though is, if there is an opportunity to pay for the content then you should.

TomCat · February 27th, 2007, 06:34 PM

I wish there was. If there were DVD's, I'd be first in line to pay up.

But I have no plans on buying a spam-filled spyware-infected media player from the BBC to watch shit quality vids a couple times before they expire and are deleted. There are plenty of US networks that allow you to watch whole episodes of shows on their websites for free, without downloading anything. I just wish the BBC was smart.

upyourego · February 27th, 2007, 06:44 PM

The BBC also allow people to watch shows online for free if you're in the UK. Don't forget the BBC is directly funded by the British public.

What makes you think the iPlayer will be spam filled and shit quality? I've trialled it and the quality is incredible - yes it has DRM but that's because the corporation are made to by other rights holders (if they didn't they wouldn't be allowed to put it online at all).

The time limit is in the UK because the Beeb have been told they're only allowed to make show available for 30 days - the international version will probably have a pay to keep option.

TomCat · February 27th, 2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upyourego

The BBC also allow people to watch shows online for free if you're in the UK. Don't forget the BBC is directly funded by the British public.

This comes back to the fact that the BBC could offer it to everyone without losing any money, but choose not to. I'm pretty sure anyone with an internet connection can go to a US network website and watch episodes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upyourego

What makes you think the iPlayer will be spam filled and shit quality?

Common sense. There isn't a doubt in my mind that as soon as the iPlayer comes out, a program that allows you to rip the episodes to your hard drive in any format you like, will quickly follow. The BBC must know this as well. They're not going to offer DVD quality rips on the iPlayer.

upyourego · February 27th, 2007, 07:07 PM

The quality of the rips on the trial version I tested were as good as the VUK rips. They were 450mb WMV files.

Also the BBC aren't ALLOWED to offer it's shows for free internationally, if they started doing that there would be complaints to OfCom and the BBC Trust from licence fee payers saying "why should I pay for Americans to get it free" and from commercial providers complaining the BBC is causing too greater impact on some imaginary market.

There is a LOT of regulatory and political BS that surrounds EVERYTHING the BBC does.

Also - I can't, as a UK internet user, (without going through an American Proxy) view videos on most of the American network sites.

zaybxcwd12 · February 27th, 2007, 07:07 PM

Not just the BBC, I went to the Fox site to watch the next episode of "Gray's Anatomy" only to be told that the service was only available for US residents. However unlike the BBC this makes sense as the series is watched in the UK and if you are up todate then there is no need to watch it on TV where a broadcaster has paid for it, the BBC on the other hand don't offer TG on other networks in the US.

As for the legality of Downloading we are moving in a couple of weeks and have knew this for a while and the TV bloke knocked on the door asking why we have no licence we told him the house is due to be demilished he said ok he would have to right it up but nothing would come of it. I mentioned my plan about not havening receiving equipment in the house when I move and watch TV though internet download, his response so long as you don't watch something as it is being broadcast then you have no problem, his response for illegal TV download was yeah it is illegal however it is a gray area and it is not something you are going to get prosecuted for, and the you can keep it for a month then you have to erase, it is law but not enforceable.

upyourego · February 27th, 2007, 07:09 PM

Exactly zay - also the BBC are going to make it even easier for you to download BBC shows in the future when they launch the iPlayer - it will give you (albeit time limited) access to every show broadcast on any BBC tv or radio network for free.

_HighVoltage_ · February 28th, 2007, 01:08 AM

There is still no certainty on the issue of Torrents. I admire the generosity of the BBC because they don't prosecute the show uploaders, because like many people before me said it - They are not actually losing money from us. They would if we lived in England and didn't pay for BBC. I would personally be happy to pay to watch Top Gear, but I'm residing in America now very few people care about car shows made by British people. Why? Because there are no pick-up truck reviews and no minivans! And why like cars like Lamborghini and Ferrari when they do not have proper cup-holders that fit 1/4 gallon cups? God, I miss Europe images/smilies/sad.gif

swek · February 28th, 2007, 08:44 PM

What you fail to consider is how the interest in Top Gear was generated in the first place. Yes, by offering free albeit illegal episodes on the Internet. If it wasn't for that most people here wouldn't even know about Top Gear.

By empracing this strict policy (going after people who offer those downloads) you actually keep people from learning about the show thus generating no interest in the product. Premium content is all I say. Superb quality, fast releases ,extra content and maybe even live streams is the way to go for the BBC.

Paul · March 1st, 2007, 08:26 PM

Yes, it is wrong to download and stuff but it seems everyone is doing it. If you can't fight them, join them.

upyourego · March 1st, 2007, 08:55 PM

OK question for you all.

If Top Gear was available to buy, DRM free in a quality equal to say the VUK rips for around $1.99 an episode would you pay for it instead of downloading it for free?

swek · March 1st, 2007, 09:23 PM

It would largely depend on two factors.

1. Will there be a livestream?
2. Will the BBC offer offer alternatives to payment by Credit Card? (Rather unpopular in Germany)

If #1 should not be available count me out.

upyourego · March 1st, 2007, 09:29 PM

I remember late last year hearing about a project inside the BBC to launch an online service in Germany that would allow subscribers to download BBC shows and watch the main BBC channels as a live stream. I'll try and find out more for you swek.

swek · March 1st, 2007, 09:34 PM

Now that would be fantastic! I'm in no position to put up a satellite dish up.

zaybxcwd12 · March 1st, 2007, 10:00 PM

upyourego where did you come by the figure of 2 dollars that seems damn expensive for one episode.

February 27th, 2007, 05:48 PM	#22
KaJuN Joined: Jul 31st, 2006 Last Online: November 17th, 2008 Location: USAF Basic Training Age: 23 Posts: 4,628 Car: Land Rover Discovery, 1980 Yamaha XJ650 Rep Power: 91	This really wouldn't be an issue if copyrights were being how they were meant to be; protecting ideas and works of people instead of the money of corporations. The AA's seem to have little respect for the people they're supposedly protecting. Why should those entities be shown any respect by the general public? __________________ D-Fence:** Kajun is just outside caressing his Discovery....touching it gently, you know......it is such a dirty bitch.....but he seems to love dirty girls in high heels who are taller then him and have "quite a few pounds" on their hips ^^ Yes we can! Join my fan club. You know you want a piece of this action!

February 27th, 2007, 06:06 PM	#24
upyourego VIP Joined: Nov 12th, 2006 Last Online: 11:30 AM Location: Jersey, Channel Islands, UK Age: 27 Posts: 1,072 Car: Never learnt to drive Rep Power: 35	I think you're missing the point completely - the BBC spends a MASSIVE amount of money on each episode of Top Gear - if it wasn't for the fact that everyone in the UK pays towards the corporation the show wouldn't get made. The same applies to commercial broadcasters - if they don't spend the money to make the show then the show doesn't get made. To get the money to spend on making the show in the first place they need to either sell advertising around that show or sell it to people. If everyone took your attitude and nobody watched adverts or paid to watch a show then the money wouldn't be there to make it, it wouldn't get made and you wouldn't be able to download it for free off the net. Until we live in a world where everyone is equal, money doesn't exist and we all create things for the love of creating them - the farmer produces food for himself and what's left is given to the people for free - someone has to pay for the content. The point I make is - if there's a commercial version, a version put out by the broadcaster for you to buy then you should be prepared to pay for something someone else has had to PAY to make. If, as is the current situation, there isn't a commercial version - feel free to download it from any location you can find. __________________ --------- Ryan Morrison howtobeageek.net

February 27th, 2007, 06:23 PM	#25
TomCat Joined: Dec 11th, 2005 Last Online: 01:54 PM Location: Chandler, Arizona Age: 24 Posts: 3,429 Car: 2004 Chrysler PT Turbo; 1985 Toyota 4Runner Rep Power: 42	I think you're missing the point. If no money is lost, where is the harm? __________________ When in doubt, throttle out.

February 27th, 2007, 06:34 PM	#27
TomCat Joined: Dec 11th, 2005 Last Online: 01:54 PM Location: Chandler, Arizona Age: 24 Posts: 3,429 Car: 2004 Chrysler PT Turbo; 1985 Toyota 4Runner Rep Power: 42	I wish there was. If there were DVD's, I'd be first in line to pay up. But I have no plans on buying a spam-filled spyware-infected media player from the BBC to watch shit quality vids a couple times before they expire and are deleted. There are plenty of US networks that allow you to watch whole episodes of shows on their websites for free, without downloading anything. I just wish the BBC was smart. __________________ When in doubt, throttle out.

February 27th, 2007, 06:44 PM	#28
upyourego VIP Joined: Nov 12th, 2006 Last Online: 11:30 AM Location: Jersey, Channel Islands, UK Age: 27 Posts: 1,072 Car: Never learnt to drive Rep Power: 35	The BBC also allow people to watch shows online for free if you're in the UK. Don't forget the BBC is directly funded by the British public. What makes you think the iPlayer will be spam filled and shit quality? I've trialled it and the quality is incredible - yes it has DRM but that's because the corporation are made to by other rights holders (if they didn't they wouldn't be allowed to put it online at all). The time limit is in the UK because the Beeb have been told they're only allowed to make show available for 30 days - the international version will probably have a pay to keep option. __________________ --------- Ryan Morrison howtobeageek.net

February 27th, 2007, 05:51 PM	#23
damnhawk Joined: Jan 17th, 2007 Last Online: January 7th, 2009 Location: Southern Florida USA Posts: 298 Car: '96 camry Rep Power: 9	^werd.

February 27th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#30
upyourego VIP Joined: Nov 12th, 2006 Last Online: 11:30 AM Location: Jersey, Channel Islands, UK Age: 27 Posts: 1,072 Car: Never learnt to drive Rep Power: 35	The quality of the rips on the trial version I tested were as good as the VUK rips. They were 450mb WMV files. Also the BBC aren't ALLOWED to offer it's shows for free internationally, if they started doing that there would be complaints to OfCom and the BBC Trust from licence fee payers saying "why should I pay for Americans to get it free" and from commercial providers complaining the BBC is causing too greater impact on some imaginary market. There is a LOT of regulatory and political BS that surrounds EVERYTHING the BBC does. Also - I can't, as a UK internet user, (without going through an American Proxy) view videos on most of the American network sites. __________________ --------- Ryan Morrison howtobeageek.net

February 27th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#31
zaybxcwd12 Joined: Jul 17th, 2006 Last Online: 10:59 AM Location: Newcastle u Tyne Uk Age: 39 Posts: 789 Car: 2008 VW Touran S Rep Power: 11	Not just the BBC, I went to the Fox site to watch the next episode of "Gray's Anatomy" only to be told that the service was only available for US residents. However unlike the BBC this makes sense as the series is watched in the UK and if you are up todate then there is no need to watch it on TV where a broadcaster has paid for it, the BBC on the other hand don't offer TG on other networks in the US. As for the legality of Downloading we are moving in a couple of weeks and have knew this for a while and the TV bloke knocked on the door asking why we have no licence we told him the house is due to be demilished he said ok he would have to right it up but nothing would come of it. I mentioned my plan about not havening receiving equipment in the house when I move and watch TV though internet download, his response so long as you don't watch something as it is being broadcast then you have no problem, his response for illegal TV download was yeah it is illegal however it is a gray area and it is not something you are going to get prosecuted for, and the you can keep it for a month then you have to erase, it is law but not enforceable.

February 27th, 2007, 07:09 PM	#32
upyourego VIP Joined: Nov 12th, 2006 Last Online: 11:30 AM Location: Jersey, Channel Islands, UK Age: 27 Posts: 1,072 Car: Never learnt to drive Rep Power: 35	Exactly zay - also the BBC are going to make it even easier for you to download BBC shows in the future when they launch the iPlayer - it will give you (albeit time limited) access to every show broadcast on any BBC tv or radio network for free. __________________ --------- Ryan Morrison howtobeageek.net

February 28th, 2007, 01:08 AM	#33
_HighVoltage_ Joined: Aug 5th, 2006 Last Online: 11:20 AM Location: Bulgaria / Athens, WV Age: 21 Posts: 1,182 Car: 1998 VW Polo 1.0 Rep Power: 19	There is still no certainty on the issue of Torrents. I admire the generosity of the BBC because they don't prosecute the show uploaders, because like many people before me said it - They are not actually losing money from us. They would if we lived in England and didn't pay for BBC. I would personally be happy to pay to watch Top Gear, but I'm residing in America now very few people care about car shows made by British people. Why? Because there are no pick-up truck reviews and no minivans! And why like cars like Lamborghini and Ferrari when they do not have proper cup-holders that fit 1/4 gallon cups? God, I miss Europe

February 28th, 2007, 08:44 PM	#34
swek Global Moderator Joined: May 19th, 2004 Last Online: 10:56 AM Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 26 Posts: 4,345 Car: Does a bicycle count? Rep Power: 47	What you fail to consider is how the interest in Top Gear was generated in the first place. Yes, by offering free albeit illegal episodes on the Internet. If it wasn't for that most people here wouldn't even know about Top Gear. By empracing this strict policy (going after people who offer those downloads) you actually keep people from learning about the show thus generating no interest in the product. Premium content is all I say. Superb quality, fast releases ,extra content and maybe even live streams is the way to go for the BBC.

March 1st, 2007, 08:26 PM	#35
Paul Previously Known As pmosiun Joined: Nov 29th, 2006 Last Online: November 4th, 2008 Posts: 320 Rep Power: 0	Yes, it is wrong to download and stuff but it seems everyone is doing it. If you can't fight them, join them.

March 1st, 2007, 08:55 PM	#36
upyourego VIP Joined: Nov 12th, 2006 Last Online: 11:30 AM Location: Jersey, Channel Islands, UK Age: 27 Posts: 1,072 Car: Never learnt to drive Rep Power: 35	OK question for you all. If Top Gear was available to buy, DRM free in a quality equal to say the VUK rips for around $1.99 an episode would you pay for it instead of downloading it for free? __________________ --------- Ryan Morrison howtobeageek.net

March 1st, 2007, 09:23 PM	#37
swek Global Moderator Joined: May 19th, 2004 Last Online: 10:56 AM Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 26 Posts: 4,345 Car: Does a bicycle count? Rep Power: 47	It would largely depend on two factors. 1. Will there be a livestream? 2. Will the BBC offer offer alternatives to payment by Credit Card? (Rather unpopular in Germany) If #1 should not be available count me out.

March 1st, 2007, 09:29 PM	#38
upyourego VIP Joined: Nov 12th, 2006 Last Online: 11:30 AM Location: Jersey, Channel Islands, UK Age: 27 Posts: 1,072 Car: Never learnt to drive Rep Power: 35	I remember late last year hearing about a project inside the BBC to launch an online service in Germany that would allow subscribers to download BBC shows and watch the main BBC channels as a live stream. I'll try and find out more for you swek. __________________ --------- Ryan Morrison howtobeageek.net

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March 1st, 2007, 09:34 PM	#39
swek Global Moderator Joined: May 19th, 2004 Last Online: 10:56 AM Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 26 Posts: 4,345 Car: Does a bicycle count? Rep Power: 47	Now that would be fantastic! I'm in no position to put up a satellite dish up. Last edited by swek; March 1st, 2007 at 10:28 PM..

March 1st, 2007, 10:00 PM	#40
zaybxcwd12 Joined: Jul 17th, 2006 Last Online: 10:59 AM Location: Newcastle u Tyne Uk Age: 39 Posts: 789 Car: 2008 VW Touran S Rep Power: 11	upyourego where did you come by the figure of 2 dollars that seems damn expensive for one episode.