New GT500 vs Terminator

[argatoga]

I would love to see a comparison between these two. Especially concerning the handling. Was the Terminators IRS much of an advantage compared to the strides Ford has made with their latest live rear axel?

[MattFarah]

Hm, interesting. We may be able to do that, and in fact we can get my boy Jamal to answer that question for us. After all, he designed both cars

[MattFarah]

See what we do here? I contacted my buddy Jamal Hameedi, chief design engineer for SVT, and asked him your question. Here is his response, verbatim.

The only real advantage a Terminator IRS has is it's smoother over rough pavement in a turn. But the handling numbers (skidpad, slalom speed, lap time, etc) of the new GT500's surpass those of Terminators by a significant margin. In addition, the solid rear axle has much higher torque capacity, less system lash (and hence clunk), lower weight, better launching with reduced wheel hop, etc. And it's MUCH more mod friendly.

[Redliner]

Interesting proposal! And nice to see his response.

[argatoga]

Thanks for the response Matt. I still hope you do an episode on it. I'd love to watch a side-by-side comparison of the two ( ended of course with a couple burnouts ). Perhaps you could get Jamal Hameedi on the show?

[MattFarah]

jamal has been on the show before

+ YouTube Video

[argatoga]

I should watch more of the old shows.

[braupe]

I would really love to see this match up. I have driven a sn95 cobra with the irs and it was much much better than my 01 GT with the solid 4 link set up. Quieter, better ride, and better side to side stability. I have also driven the new s197 platform with the solid rear with a panhard bar set up and it was better than the 4 link as well but you could feel the tail rear steer ever so slightly as the rear would compress and rebound between shifts, etc.

Not to mention the 03 cobra is lighter than the gt500. This would be a great show.

BTW Matt if you need a 03/04 Cobra in the Dallas Area I can find one for ya in no time.

[MattFarah]

we are coming back to texas in a few months, so we'll see what we can do about that

[FAsnakes]

Jep... If you're in SoCal, i'll bring the whippled Terminator..
I'd like to see the comparison as well..

[MattFarah]

we will be back in SoCal at the end of June, keep this thread alive and we will test them side by side.

[FAsnakes]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

we will be back in SoCal at the end of June, keep this thread alive and we will test them side by side.

Great.. Can't wait..

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

See what we do here? I contacted my buddy Jamal Hameedi, chief design engineer for SVT, and asked him your question. Here is his response, verbatim.

The only real advantage a Terminator IRS has is it's smoother over rough pavement in a turn. But the handling numbers (skidpad, slalom speed, lap time, etc) of the new GT500's surpass those of Terminators by a significant margin. In addition, the solid rear axle has much higher torque capacity, less system lash (and hence clunk), lower weight, better launching with reduced wheel hop, etc. And it's MUCH more mod friendly.

Hm, while you have him, ask him why they compromised the Terminator's IRS by slapping in the bushings from a Taurus instead of some proper units.

merp (on this board) and I spent a lot of time yanking out all the rubbish bushings and putting in the Maximum Motorsports kits for his Terminator's IRS about two years ago. I wonder if Hameedi would care to comment on how much better the Terminator's IRS would get in such an instance.

[MattFarah]

I don't even have to ask him because I already know the answer. Money. I guarantee you he built a fantastic system and the Ford bean counters said "now go back and make it cost half as much." Because that's what they do in America. American car companies employ some amazing engineers. I've met some from both GM and Ford, and they have tons of talent. The problem is, if American sports cars were built to be "the best cars possible, no matter what." They would feel like, look like, and cost as much money as German cars. The not-so big 3's accounting department make damn sure that on paper American cars look like German cars for half the price, but underneath, where you can't see, they are made at half the cost.

Think about this: When SVT was challenged to design the best sports car they could, from the ground up, they built the Ford GT. And I don't care what Clarkson says about it or why he hates it, the GT is the most fun car I've ever driven, by leaps and bounds. They also designed the Shelby GR-1 concept (look it up), and it was weeks from production when the accounting department pulled the plug. That was really a shame, I would have loved to drive that car.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

I don't even have to ask him because I already know the answer. Money. I guarantee you he built a fantastic system and the Ford bean counters said "now go back and make it cost half as much."

Yeah, we all figured that was the reason - but I still wanted to know how much better he thinks the Terminator IRS would be with proper bushings.

Please - would you mind asking him? Thanks.

[bartboy9891]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

I don't even have to ask him because I already know the answer. Money. I guarantee you he built a fantastic system and the Ford bean counters said "now go back and make it cost half as much." Because that's what they do in America. American car companies employ some amazing engineers. I've met some from both GM and Ford, and they have tons of talent. The problem is, if American sports cars were built to be "the best cars possible, no matter what." They would feel like, look like, and cost as much money as German cars. The not-so big 3's accounting department make damn sure that on paper American cars look like German cars for half the price, but underneath, where you can't see, they are made at half the cost.

Think about this: When SVT was challenged to design the best sports car they could, from the ground up, they built the Ford GT. And I don't care what Clarkson says about it or why he hates it, the GT is the most fun car I've ever driven, by leaps and bounds. They also designed the Shelby GR-1 concept (look it up), and it was weeks from production when the accounting department pulled the plug. That was really a shame, I would have loved to drive that car.

Sorry to nitpick, but Clarkson actually loved the Ford GT. You may be thinking of the review he did of a pre-production model. He even bought one (twice). The problem was that there was a dealer installed security system that made living with that specific car a living nightmare. The alarm going off in the middle of the night, frequent calls telling him the car had been stolen when he was driving it himself, and being immobilized by the system for no apparent reason is why he didn't keep it for longer. He ended up selling it, buying the same one back a few weeks later, tolerating it for a while and ultimately selling it to buy a Gallardo Spyder which also ended up getting sold.

For reference or nostalgic purposes, here's his review of the production model and a compilation of his complaints

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

[MattFarah]

I stand corrected, and I reinforce my point that the Ford GT is the most rewarding American car I've ever driven.

I have not yet driven a ZR1 though...

[braupe]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

I stand corrected, and I reinforce my point that the Ford GT is the most rewarding American car I've ever driven.

I have not yet driven a ZR1 though...

I hope you drive the ZR1 soon, that will be a great episode.

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

we will be back in SoCal at the end of June, keep this thread alive and we will test them side by side.

Keeping it alive.

[MattFarah]

ha, good work. After we get back from the Bullrun, we can get a GT500 press loaner out here in LA and head up to the racetrack to see what's what with these two....