Review for the new camaro?

[jerky noff]

Ive heard good and bad about this car I wana hear matt's say on it. Is it a good car? is it better than a mustang?

[MattFarah]

2 things:

1) Most of my journalist friends say no, it isn't. On the other hand, it is undeniably faster than a Mustang GT in a straight line, so there's no arguing with that.

2) I highly doubt I'll be able to get one from GM. They don't like me very much after my review of the Escalade Hybrid wasn't exactly favorable, and my boss "scratched" a ZR1. So, when someone out there buys one and lets me borrow it for a day, we will have a Camaro review...

That's the problem with press cars. If you don't say what they want to hear, you don't get any more press cars.

[jerky noff]

i figured they wouldn't like the escalade review. well i dont know if this is a dumb question but what about fld? do you think gm will lend it to them?

[MattFarah]

I don't know, possibly...

[MattD1zzl3]

You wasted your "piss the press car desk off" cherry on an ESCALADE? You might as well have done an episode on the Aveo! We all knew it was horrible what was the point?

[MattFarah]

because the problem is, if you want to get press cars from a company, most of the time they give you all the bad ones first. you have to give the bad ones good reviews if you want to get the good ones. I wasn't willing to give the Escalade Hybrid a good review because it's a terrible, awful car and no one would have believed me if I said otherwise.

[pandasaurus_rex]

Plus, you seem to pick on GM alot. Not as much a Chrysler, but I can tell that of all the domestic manufacturers, Ford is usually described favorably on your shows. GM and Chrysler tend to get sucky remarks.

[MattFarah]

GM and Chrysler both make very bad decisions. Chrysler makes terrible product, no matter how fast the (barely street legal) Viper ACR is. The Challenger is awful. The sedans are outdated at the top level, and poorly engineered at the bottom level. I don't know what happened to their minivans, but they are, all of a sudden, beyond ugly. And the Jeep Compass and Patriot have totally ruined that brand. The only car they make that I would spend my money on would be (maybe) a ram, and (definitely) a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited.

As for GM, they make fantastic enthusiast cars when the accountants allow them, but they make terrible corporate decisions, badge-engineer every model until it's declared irrelevant, and invest in the worst kinds of alternative fuel technology (hybrid and E85). They also use lots of plastic in their top-tier models, which annoys me very much.

Plus, both of them took government money. Which is fine, as long as you're going to do something with it. But so far, they are worse than before, and looks like they will need even more. And the shareholders are completely screwed.

Ford hasn't taken government money, has finally learned to import their european models here, and listens to their customers when they get feedback. So I tend to approve of what they are doing.....

[wlmmn]

Well put, Matt. Love your show. I take it you agree on Adam Carolla's stance on lots of American cars in general having a poor fit and finish and plastic-y?

I for one couldn't stand the cheap, almost granny-looking steering wheel that was on the Pontiac Firebird for the last generation they had it.

[HatePersonified]

Originally Posted by wlmmn

Well put, Matt. Love your show. I take it you agree on Adam Carolla's stance on lots of American cars in general having a poor fit and finish and plastic-y?

I for one couldn't stand the cheap, almost granny-looking steering wheel that was on the Pontiac Firebird for the last generation they had it.

To be fair though that steering wheel is actually quite well laid out and very comfortable to use. As you have said, I share the same gripe that it looks granny-ish, but I blame the space needed for a stupid airbag as where the majority of fault for the looks of the wheel. (I do really like the radio buttons on the wheel though, as long as they work)

[MattFarah]

GM's interiors in the 90's were, to quote Clarkson's recent column, "biblically awful." They have certainly gotten better, but you have to pay for it. The only GM cars right now with interiors that are up to snuff within their price range are the Malibu (only with full leather) and CTS-V, which uses seats directly out of an Audi, and an actual nice steering wheel.

When I bought my 1994 Mustang in 1998, I also looked at a 1997 Trans Am WS6 and a 1996 Camaro Z28 with some light mods. The F-body cars both had lower mileage and more power, yet when I drove them, I was horrified at the amount of interior squeaks and rattles. Not that the Mustang was without its share of plastic, but even at 4 years old, versus 1 and 2, it sounded far less like a haunted house over bumpy roads.

[Ezbok58a]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

2 things:

1) Most of my journalist friends say no, it isn't. On the other hand, it is undeniably faster than a Mustang GT in a straight line, so there's no arguing with that.

2) I highly doubt I'll be able to get one from GM. They don't like me very much after my review of the Escalade Hybrid wasn't exactly favorable, and my boss "scratched" a ZR1. So, when someone out there buys one and lets me borrow it for a day, we will have a Camaro review...

That's the problem with press cars. If you don't say what they want to hear, you don't get any more press cars.

I used to deliver you guys your press cars...and I have to say some of the people that were 'automotive journalists' that I met were also some of the biggest car idiots I've ever met.

I actually had one journalist tell me the R32 VW was terrible because he couldn't open the back hatch. I asked if the VW badge was broken and he had absolutely no clue what I was talking about until I showed him. Now if it was a new VW feature I'd understand, but VW hatchbacks for as far as I can remember had the VW emblem as the hatch opener. WTF?


To get back to the Camaro, do you really want to review that car? Why not save it for a GXP G8. I've had a Camaro once and that car was a complete nightmare. Sure it was faster in a straight line, but it was also at the dealer every other month because something collosal broke on it.

Gave new meaning to the term Fail body if you ask me

[bartboy9891]

You'd think that GM would try to score as much publicity for the Camaro as possible. But you could extend an invitation to new Camaro owners on your website to see if one will let you drive their car. If Top Gear can manage to persuade three different people to lend them an MC12, Enzo and Veyron, I'm sure you guys can find a Camaro

[MattFarah]

true....

[svb]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

GM and Chrysler both make very bad decisions. Chrysler makes terrible product, no matter how fast the (barely street legal) Viper ACR is. The Challenger is awful. The sedans are outdated at the top level, and poorly engineered at the bottom level. I don't know what happened to their minivans, but they are, all of a sudden, beyond ugly. And the Jeep Compass and Patriot have totally ruined that brand. The only car they make that I would spend my money on would be (maybe) a ram, and (definitely) a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited.

As for GM, they make fantastic enthusiast cars when the accountants allow them, but they make terrible corporate decisions, badge-engineer every model until it's declared irrelevant, and invest in the worst kinds of alternative fuel technology (hybrid and E85). They also use lots of plastic in their top-tier models, which annoys me very much.

Plus, both of them took government money. Which is fine, as long as you're going to do something with it. But so far, they are worse than before, and looks like they will need even more. And the shareholders are completely screwed.

Ford hasn't taken government money, has finally learned to import their european models here, and listens to their customers when they get feedback. So I tend to approve of what they are doing.....

This.

My sentiments exactly. You put it nice and succinctly and pretty much nail the problems with GM and Chrysler and why Ford may not be so bad as the other two. I was never a big Ford fan growing up but lately I've been seeing things a different way, and for basically the same reasons as what you state.

Also, I formerly owned a 97 Neon ACR (little brother to the Viper ACR) and while it was an impressive machine, it was not well-built. It's gone now. Of my two friends who still have theirs, one doesn't run and the other continues to have issues. Again it's just a case of them being able to do something impressive but unfortunately they do so while cutting corners on everything else.

[svb]

Originally Posted by Ezbok58a

I used to deliver you guys your press cars...and I have to say some of the people that were 'automotive journalists' that I met were also some of the biggest car idiots I've ever met.

I actually had one journalist tell me the R32 VW was terrible because he couldn't open the back hatch. I asked if the VW badge was broken and he had absolutely no clue what I was talking about until I showed him. Now if it was a new VW feature I'd understand, but VW hatchbacks for as far as I can remember had the VW emblem as the hatch opener. WTF?

Well first, no, that isn't true. Take a look at any Golf prior to the current generation; they all have handles to lift the hatch. Take a look:



Second, I know how to open the hatch on my GTI because the dealer showed me how when I bought it. I don't think it's intuitive and I can't say I'd have worked it out myself, or that I wouldn't spend considerable time before I did. Further, anytime anyone else needs to get in, I have to explain to them how, car enthusiast or not.

So my point is just that I don't think lack of knowledge of a relatively new and idiosyncratic function is a true indicator that someone is a car idiot.

Now, they may still be an idiot, mind you, I'm just saying I don't think that this necessarily proves it.

[MattFarah]

Having attended several press events in the past year, I can tell you that some journalists out there ask very stupid questions in the information briefing. I honestly have no idea who they are, since most are writers whose faces you never see, but they do exist. Most of them, however, are real car guys. Some of the older veterans have the wildest car knowledge you've ever seen, and can drop specs on cars going all the way back to the fifties. It truly puts me to shame. And a lot of the young writers, especially from The Truth About Cars, Jalopnik, and Motor Authority are super cool and we all have a great time at events and generally share opinions on most of the new cars.

Plus, sometimes you don't get to spend a lot of time with a press car. I know that I have had to film entire episodes about a car with as little as 5 minutes behind the wheel before doing a monologue. I've had press cars that I've never turned on the radio, never opened the trunk, and never used the HVAC system. So it would be totally possible for me to never even experience certain idiosyncrasies in any given car.

But speaking of VW, my Jetta TDI press car had a really stupid trunk latch that took me 2 days to figure out how to open properly. It really pissed me off.

[Ezbok58a]

Originally Posted by MattFarah

Having attended several press events in the past year, I can tell you that some journalists out there ask very stupid questions in the information briefing. I honestly have no idea who they are, since most are writers whose faces you never see, but they do exist. Most of them, however, are real car guys. Some of the older veterans have the wildest car knowledge you've ever seen, and can drop specs on cars going all the way back to the fifties. It truly puts me to shame. And a lot of the young writers, especially from The Truth About Cars, Jalopnik, and Motor Authority are super cool and we all have a great time at events and generally share opinions on most of the new cars.

Plus, sometimes you don't get to spend a lot of time with a press car. I know that I have had to film entire episodes about a car with as little as 5 minutes behind the wheel before doing a monologue. I've had press cars that I've never turned on the radio, never opened the trunk, and never used the HVAC system. So it would be totally possible for me to never even experience certain idiosyncrasies in any given car.

But speaking of VW, my Jetta TDI press car had a really stupid trunk latch that took me 2 days to figure out how to open properly. It really pissed me off.

I've come across a wide range of Jounalists. Like you said certain ones are good and others I could tell were bad. (For example, you get a W12 A8L for the weekend, a 144K car and you go off roading with it...Yes it happened. I picked the car up in Manhattan, it was all covered in dirt that faded to the paint color near the door handles.)

Many of the younger guys I could have long and interesting conversations with (the guys at 0-60/Rides are one of them) Same could be said for some of the older guys. But there are some that just downright suck. Much like the Human race actually.

That being said, I don't like any VW/Audi vehicles I've driven...mainly because I've seen the repair bills when you journalists break something.

[yourk]

FLD is doing a quick review of the Camaro V6 today. Nothing big, we only have the car for a little bit, but there will be a review on next Friday's FLD.

[jerky noff]

coooool. dont tell me derek d will attempt at reviewing it though