2007 Brazilian Grand Prix - Title Decider

LoneWolf

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but with that Hungary penalty, McLaren would be 203.
Precisely. The Hungary issue and the spy row are two completely seperate things. We're just speculating on what would've happened had Mclaren not been thrown out, they'd have still been docked points for the Hungary quali debacle.
 

hajj

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Precisely. The Hungary issue and the spy row are two completely seperate things. We're just speculating on what would've happened had Mclaren not been thrown out, they'd have still been docked points for the Hungary quali debacle.
So basically they are telling us, that they cannot count at all..:rolleyes: Just one more point it would have all been different.:lol:
 

HondaF1

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McLaren are funny this year. Its all gone wrong for them :lol:
 

KaJuN

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McLaren are funny this year. Its all gone wrong for them :lol:
I was thinking that too. Before the season started they brought in back-to-back world champion Alonso and a very promising Hamilton and look what it got them.
 

HondaF1

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I was thinking that too. Before the season started they brought in back-to-back world champion Alonso and a very promising Hamilton and look what it got them.
I think it's because we all expected Alonso to lead the charge as it had been talked about for a year, and Hamilton to play the team game.

We didnt expect Hamilton to be so good and for there to be inter-team turmoil.
 

KaJuN

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Good point. Alonso would have easily won the championship if Hamilton hadn't stolen so many points away from him. The same could be said for Hamilton not winning the championship.
 

Red_Bull

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Precisely. The Hungary issue and the spy row are two completely seperate things. We're just speculating on what would've happened had Mclaren not been thrown out, they'd have still been docked points for the Hungary quali debacle.
Ahh, but McLaren were going to appeal the Hungary decision and only withdrew it because there was no point. They would've won that appeal as well because the FIA has no right to interfere with team procedure.
 

teletubby-warrior

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http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41175

McLaren says its appeal against the Brazilian Grand Prix stewards? decision not to exclude the fourth, fifth and sixth-placed cars from the results should not be seen as questioning the integrity of the Williams and BMW Sauber teams.

The Woking squad confirmed on Tuesday that it had filed a notice of appeal to the FIA via UK motorsport?s governing body the MSA.

The Interlagos stewards issued no penalties because they said fuel temperature irregularities detailed in a report by FIA technical delegate Jo Bauer could not be conclusively proven.

They pointed to a discrepancy between the ambient temperature recorded on the Formula One Management timing monitors and that provided by the FIA and team-contracted meteorologists Meteo France ? and said there was no ?regulation stating in clear terms that?the definitive ambient temperature shall be indicated on the FOM timing monitors alone?.

They also said they lacked ?a precise reading of the temperature of ?fuel on board the car? which shows fuel at more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature?.

Their statement concluded: ?In view of the matters referred to above, the stewards consider that?there must be sufficient doubt as to both the temperature of the fuel actually ?on board the car? and also as to the true ambient temperature as to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty?.

McLaren feels this verdict was unsatisfactory and claims that the governing body had clearly specified the basis on which fuel temperatures should be measured.

?The team has taken the view, from the information that we currently have available, that there was non-compliance with the regulations,? McLaren said in a statement.

?The team believes that the FIA has, in written clarification of the technical regulations and in its minutes of two Formula 1 team manager meetings, made clear how it would interpret and manage the regulations and procedures associated with the control of fuel temperatures.

?This process was followed in the normal manner by the FIA technical delegate following the Brazilian Grand Prix and the irregularities were reported by him to the stewards of the meeting.

?Consequently the team does not understand the justification as described in the decision published late on Sunday evening.?

If successful, the appeal has the potential to overturn Kimi Raikkonen?s championship victory and hand the title to McLaren?s Lewis Hamilton.

But the 22-year-old Briton admitted on Monday that he would not feel comfortable winning by virtue of a court decision.

?Being promoted after some people have been thrown out is not the way I want to win it,? he said.

?I don?t know, it would feel weird after Kimi did such a fantastic job in the last two races and won on Sunday.

?Having it taken away would be a bit cruel and probably not good for the sport.?

McLaren has stressed that it is not taking the appeal route as a last-ditch bid to avenge its failure to win the title on the track, but because the matter is too important to be dropped.

?The significance of this matter and its timing is, of course, regrettable,? the statement said.

?The team wishes to win races and championships on the track.

?However, if there has been an irregularity, which is not the fault of the team, we feel that the matter must be properly examined to ensure that the rules are applied.

?This is something that we believe the FIA would fully support and would wish to be seen to have done.

?Vodafone McLaren Mercedes wishes to stress, however, that it does not question the integrity of either the BMW or Williams teams.

?We know, without even enquiring, that neither team would have sought to achieve a performance advantage by such an irregularity and that the situation could only have arisen as the consequence of an operational error within the team on the day.

?Ultimately we feel that the FIA should determine whether an irregularity occurred or not, and the team will fully respect the process and any decision that is ultimately given.?
If McLaren really wanted to win the championship the right way, they'd just let this go. The performance advantage, if any, the BMWs and the Williams gained was not large enough to affect the outcome of the race. Hamilton was a full lap down, there's no way he would have been anywhere near Heidfeld in the final laps anyway. Hamilton's two mistakes cost him an entire lap and ultimately, the title.
 

47

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If you ask me, they can have the bloody constructors championship, all I cara about is Kimi's title :D
 

LoneWolf

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Ahh, but McLaren were going to appeal the Hungary decision and only withdrew it because there was no point. They would've won that appeal as well because the FIA has no right to interfere with team procedure.
Don't they? I mean, if you think about it, the banning of team orders has it's roots with Austria 2002, because "Ferrari manipulated the result" at the end of the race. In a similar way, Mclaren were ultimately responsible for manipulating the Hungary quali session, which benefitted one driver but seriously hampered another. So from a fan's perspective, they were robbed of a fair fight between two team-mates fighting for pole, just as they were robbed in Austria 2002 of two team-mates potentially fighting for a win (though I always maintain a team has a right to issue team orders for the benefit of the team overall).

As for appealing, if Mclaren had a good chance of winning, surely they would've appealed? The only reason not to appeal is if you feel the odds are stacked against you and you might lose the appeal. :think:
 

Red_Bull

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Don't they? I mean, if you think about it, the banning of team orders has it's roots with Austria 2002, because "Ferrari manipulated the result" at the end of the race. In a similar way, Mclaren were ultimately responsible for manipulating the Hungary quali session, which benefitted one driver but seriously hampered another. So from a fan's perspective, they were robbed of a fair fight between two team-mates fighting for pole, just as they were robbed in Austria 2002 of two team-mates potentially fighting for a win (though I always maintain a team has a right to issue team orders for the benefit of the team overall).
There's arguments for and against. I don't really have a stance because I accept that team orders are a part of F1. I expected Ferrari to swap Massa and Raikkonen in Brazil, it was the obvious thing to do. I don't like seeing manipulation such as Austria 2002, or Australia 1998. Noone does! Besides, Hungary qualifying was for the benefit of the team as their equal policy dictated that each car would begin quali with differing amounts of fuel so it would all equal out...ahh I don't remember.

As for appealing, if Mclaren had a good chance of winning, surely they would've appealed? The only reason not to appeal is if you feel the odds are stacked against you and you might lose the appeal. :think:
They dropped the appeal because they had already lost all of their constructors points, so it didn't really matter whether they won or not:p
 
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LoneWolf

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They dropped the appeal because they had already lost all of their constructors points, so it didn't really matter whether they won or not:p
OK, I'm seriously getting my dates confused here. Did Mclaren get thrown out of the championship before or after Hungary? I presumed it was after, since it was pointless punishing Mclaren's for points if they had already been kicked out.
 

HondaF1

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Maybe Ferrari could have the trophy for 2 weeks, then McLaren for 2 weeks, then keep that going for the rest of time??
 
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