2010 German Grand Prix - Hockenheim

If a Ferrari driver wins the driver's championship that's a good bonus. My priorities go as: Team, Team drivers, Individual drivers. I like Kubica and Sutil's driving styles, but if Kubica is fighting with Alonso (and I already stated I dont like Alonso), I'll still cheer for Alonso and be happy if he wins.

That blog entry has a lot of good points I've been trying to make, except I dont word my points well enough and a ton of people already dislike me here, but it's what I've been trying to say all along:
From MSchumacher:
"By the end of the year, if you think you would have lost the championship for exactly that point you will ask yourself, all the fans, the television, the journalists, why didn't you do so?
"If you go back to other years, other teams and other situations, in the last race there were clear team orders and everybody accepts those. Whether it's the last race, second last race or even earlier, what's the point?
From David Coulthard:
"Every team in this pit lane gives team orders and anyone who says they don't is lying."
From the Blogger:
F1 is a team sport; teams constantly manipulate races. Having a rule banning team orders doesn't mean they don't happen, it simply means teams have to find duplicitous ways of employing them.
Equally, I don't see the logic of an argument that says Ferrari should be penalised for this incident but teams and drivers should not have been punished for similar situations in the past.
The most obvious recent one that springs to mind decided the result of the world championship in 2007.

In the final race of the season in Brazil, Massa was leading then-Ferrari team-mate Kimi Raikkonen, with Alonso - then at McLaren - in third place and the Spaniard's team-mate Hamilton fighting his way back up the field, eventually finishing fifth.

Had Massa won, Hamilton would have been world champion - but Massa, clearly under instruction from Ferrari, gave up a victory in his home race so his team-mate could win the title.

No one complained then. So why now?

Unrelated point:
I can't see why nobody talks of contractors' championship vs drivers'. Each team has championship to complete in and it's called Constructors championship.

Driver's championship should just be decided between drivers. Why do teams try to influence that so much? even go against the rules?
Do they get paid more $ from FIA if their drivers place higher?

I'm guessing not from FIA, but sponsors and other interests are at stake, such as merchandise sales, and if you want, pride?
 
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interesting point on BBC blog

"It's worth pointing out that the previous version of this rule said "team orders that are against the interests of competition are forbidden".

Under that wording, you could even make the case that what Ferrari did was explicitly allowed, even encouraged, by the rules - in that letting Alonso win was absolutely in the interests of competition, ie in increasing the prospects of an interesting world championship fight.

Steve Matchett on the FOX Sports broadcast pretty much said this was about the only legitimate way for one team car to pass another for position and that was why Rob Smedley was telling Massa to build a sizable gap. And when he couldn't because Alonso was lapping consistently faster, that was why he was moved ahead.

Clearly, the stewards felt differently...
 
Steve Matchett on the FOX Sports broadcast pretty much said this was about the only legitimate way for one team car to pass another for position and that was why Rob Smedley was telling Massa to build a sizable gap. And when he couldn't because Alonso was lapping consistently faster, that was why he was moved ahead.

Clearly, the stewards felt differently...

yes but at the end of the day rules are rules no matter how stupid they might be or hard to police, and Ferrari broke them in a very obvious way and are now doing a shit job of trying to cover it up. I say either DQ them from the race or ban them for a race, and then for next year start to rethink the team orders rule. as has been said before, we all know teams do it, but breaking it in a plain way and then trying to get away with it is just insulting
 
yes but at the end of the day rules are rules no matter how stupid they might be or hard to police, and Ferrari broke them in a very obvious way and are now doing a shit job of trying to cover it up. I say either DQ them from the race or ban them for a race, and then for next year start to rethink the team orders rule. as has been said before, we all know teams do it, but breaking it in a plain way and then trying to get away with it is just insulting
They won't ban Ferrari for a race or DQ them. The reason is what Coulthard says: Everyone uses team orders and we all know it. If they were fined, it was for getting caught and letting the "general public" know. But again, everyone in the paddock knows that everyone breaks this rule. It's not good sportsmanship, but its not a Ferrari thing. People don't like it but it happens. Doesn't it make you wonder how many times your favourite team did it under your nose without your knowledge?
 
I'm relieved it was only a 100 grand fine.

Quite a ridiculous sum compared to the $1mil punishment for Michael and Rubens not taking up proper podium spots in Austria 2002 after their legal team order back then.
If the stewards do recognize it as an illegal team order (which they obviously did, else there would be no reason for a fine) then they should dish out a reasonable punishment.
 
I really hope they get punished much harder when the higher instance takes care of this.
 
They did what they had to do.
 
Poor Bulk, he hasn't won since 2008 and had a huge accident and recovery this past year. He was first from the beginning of the race, just after the first corner, up until he pitted, and then took the place back when Button pitted. His name was on that trophy and Ferrari with Domenicali bent him forward and went at it with him, I really feel for him. What a farce!
 
Ditto with ahpadt.

And i'm just stoked looking at all the points of arguement. Made my morning.
 
Perfect result in terms of Drivers' and Constructors' Championships, but I really feel for Felipe.

+1

I'm pissed I missed the race, I saw the practice and qualification but missed the race because our antenna here at our house in Italy doesn't get RAI1 for some reason and we couldn't fix it in time.
 
The rule should be gotten rid of. It's almost impossible to police and the definitions of 'manipulating race results' and 'team orders' are wildly open for subjective interpretation. You could fit the whole F1 paddock in the grey area all that creates.

As long as there are teams that field multiple cars F1 is going to remain as a team sport. It has always been and it is not going to change. We just have to live with it, and FIA should do the same.
 
The team should only care about maximizing the points for constructors, so if they have a 1-2 they shouldn't care who is the 1 and who is the 2 because they have maximized the number of points they can achieve for their championship. The drivers do care who is first and who is second between them and that's for them to fight alone. What happened this race was Alonso crying for his Dad to take care of the bully. That is never okay.
 
I have a feeling Ferrari will not be penalized further by the WMSC. This is exactly what Bernie needs to help him break up FOTA.
 
After having a quick read of the press conference, it just makes me laugh how they are clearly covering up.

For example.

Q: You were told by Rob Smedley, your race engineer, that Fernando was the faster car than yourself. A couple of laps later, turn six at the hairpin, talk us through what happened?
FM: Well, I don't think I need to say anything about that.

Q: Fernando managed to get past you. Did you make a mistake? Was it under braking?
FM: He passed me.

Q: Then Rob Smedley said 'Good lad, sorry'.
FM: Yeah.

I mean seriously. If you don't think that team orders came into effect then you are deluded. There is NO WAY Massa willingly decided to give Alonso 1st place. Go back to Australia I think it was, he was interviewed, and asked. If the team asked you to let Alonso pass, would you? He simply said a very firm No and smiled.

Something must be firing up in Ferrari for him to just 'let' Alonso pass by Willingly without putting up a fight, like he had done previous in the race. Massa would have taken all 25 points in a heartbeat.

Ferrari need to either be punished, OR the rule scrapped. Else were going to see a lot more of this happening this season later on I bet.
 
Bugger. Why is it when I say that we'll be in for a cracking race (Ferrari controversy & Vettel pissing around at the start aside) does it end up being boring. I'm a bloody jinx. :lol:

I think my altered support sig says all I need to say about the state of affairs. I also find myself simply unable to defend Alonso anymore, I really thought he'd left this crap behind him, but it appears this is is simply what he is and people are willing to bend over backwards at the expense of others to pander to his ego. Also, shame on Massa for not standing up to this crap - he's not another Webber vs Red Bull Vettel favouritism in this one, he's the new Bend Over Barichello. :wall: There's a couple of far more palatable Spaniards on the grid. (girly :wub: of Jaime aside, LOL.)

That said, I do enjoy watching Stefano D. squirm. :devil:
 
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Had to endure the pain of watching this race with no Internet connection available, but in any case... I thought that the stunt Ferrari pulled was pretty stupid (and that's putting it very mildly). The first thing that came up in my mind when I saw the move was "this is going to cause a massive sh*tstorm all over the F1 forums everywhere".

And it seems that it has. I won't join the debate, everything that I might have said has already been said.
 
I watched the race on Japanese television with Japanese commentary and even then I could tell Massa blatantly let Alonso by. I like Massa and it hurt to see the win taken from him by the guys behind the pit wall. He definitely deserved the win after all he's been through in the last year with the crash and seemingly playing the backup driver to two different world champions.
 
Personally, I'm just waiting for the end of the year, when RB or Mclaren have to issue team orders for the championship. I bet half of you will say: It had to have been done, nothing bad. And when I read gpupdate, Horner sticking his nose in about the subject. He is the last one that has any right in judging such things.

Seriously, if it weren't a red car with Alonso (I don't like him either, tbh) you wouldn't create such a fuss about it. What if Alonso let Massa by? Huh?

Oh and Zesty: Mind if I write f*ck Webber in my sig? He gets on my nerves a lot, I'd be glad to insult him out of my subjective hatred?
 
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