2011 Formula 1 Gran Premio de Espa?a Santander

Cellos88GT

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Refueling is quite expensive, both from the pure costs to keep the machines ready and from the risk involved to your mechanics, the driver, the entire pit lane, your race, ...
And providing the necessary insuarance when drivers like Massa are still around.... haha
 

-Cpt. J.-

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Keeping the engines and aerodynamics and not refueling is even cheaper.
Yeah but having proper pitstops would up the excitement factor and it's not a artificial way of doing it.
DRS is artificial...

And providing the necessary insuarance when drivers like Massa are still around.... haha
Totally agree.
Massa should always crash into a barrier, bring out the Safety Car so Alonso can pit under Safety Car.
 
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narf

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Yeah but having proper pitstops would up the excitement factor and it's not a artificial way of doing it.
DRS is artificial...
Refueling when you could actually take all the fuel you need is artificial as well - just like virtually every F1 regulation.
 

DubyaStep

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I happen to find Lexus/Toyota to be a boring car company so I put two and two together and made a funny. Geez, lighten up sir.
I agree with you on something! lol, i hate toy/lex. ill admit they make 1 good car. Unfortunitly i live in the orlando area and the only thing people is this fuck ass town drive is lexus. i mean, everywhere you look is a damn lexus, do they have no taste in cars? F%%^^&*& (i hate this place)
 

ALXBWSCREW

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Big LOL at all the ferrari fans all around the internet.
Small minded, sore, childish loosers. All of em.
Looks like you're a sore bitch as well. And yes this comes from a Ferrari fan. I guess not all of em try to find something wrong with the other teams when Ferrari doesn't win.

If you want real racing go watch karting, it is one sport where politics don't play a very big role. Heck, you can even compete there if you hate F1 so much.
 

-Cpt. J.-

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In my mind, "artificial" is not necessarily bad.
It is in the case of the DRS. Manily because drivers are not allowed to use it all over the circuit when they're 1second behind the guy they want to pass.
"Over taking zones" are bad. In all forms. DRS in many ways is much like the F-Duct the teams had in 2010. But they could use F-Duct everywhere even if drivers were not trying to overtake anyone. F-Duct showed innovation, it was a direct result of competition. It spawned the DRS rear wings teams are using today. And DRS ruins competition and prevents innovation. That's why it's bad.

First over taking zones, next, short cuts.
Drivers are allowed to cut a specific corner max. 5 times during a GP.

It's kinda hard to figure out if you're sarcastic or not or are you deliberately trying not to understand the point I am trying to make. Having more complex and more action during pit stops would benefit the race. The fans, the teams, drivers, tyres... having over taking zones in a specific section of the track where drivers can easily overtake with minimal effort, runis the race. It's like Cher, the woman hasn't aged at all for decades, but it's all plastic, artificial, it's not real. I would rather see 2 real over takes wich are a result of drivers rather than 10 faked passes designed to boost ratings in a artificial way. FIA should look for ways to increase competition and award innovation. I guess i see a lot more potential in pit stops than others? Unused potential.

Looks like you're a sore bitch as well. And yes this comes from a Ferrari fan. I guess not all of em try to find something wrong with the other teams when Ferrari doesn't win.

If you want real racing go watch karting, it is one sport where politics don't play a very big role. Heck, you can even compete there if you hate F1 so much.
Thank you for taking my words completely out of context, prooving my point, and in the same time making your self look like a bigger idiot than I am.
 
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narf

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I don't see the difference between artificial overtaking zones and artificially overcomplicated pit stops. Similarly, the tyres are artificially bad.

Now, I'm not saying what measure is better for who, I'm just saying all of these things are artificial. Like I posted before, "artificial" itself is not necessarily bad.
 

-Cpt. J.-

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Well i guess it's me who doesn't see the point you're trying to make. But since F1 is a team sport it would be nice to see a bigger team effort in it.
They had refuelling during pit stops for years. I don't remember exactly why refuelling was banned but i don't think the safety of the mechanics or the financial aspect of it were the biggest concerns.
I just think pit stops could bring much more to the races than what they do now.
 

settler

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Similarly, the tyres are artificially bad.
Agree, but that doesn't have to be a bad situation.

Refueling when you could actually take all the fuel you need is artificial as well - just like virtually every F1 regulation.
Disagree. I don't know what you mean saying "artificial", for me it's obligation of choosing a slower solution. Refuelling during a race is faster way to finish it. So in that sense ban of refuelling is "artificial". Earlier teams were allowed to make huge tanks and take fuel for a whole race, but they didn't.
 

Cellos88GT

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In regards to tire thing, I find it comical that FIA is so worried about the emissions and "greeness" of Formula 1 yet they permit the use of tires that last 8 laps... does anyone else find this a bit hypocritical?
 

-Cpt. J.-

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Agree, but that doesn't have to be a bad situation.



Disagree. I don't know what you mean saying "artificial", for me it's obligation of choosing a slower solution. Refuelling during a race is faster way to finish it. So in that sense ban of refuelling is "artificial". Earlier teams were allowed to make huge tanks and take fuel for a whole race, but they didn't.
There was one Monaco race in the 90's in wich Mika Salo in an Arrows didn't pit at all.
But it's clear if you look back just 10 years, the FIA just cannot make up it's mind what to do about pit stops.

New tyres and complete refuelling was the norm for about a decade. After the tyre wars, during pit stops they were not allowed to change tyres. I think this peiod lasted for one or two years. In the more recent history refuelling has been disallowed. Why? Where the hell is the continuity. Stopping during a race is one of the most common sights in motorsport. There's absolutely no need to changethe the routine around, flip it upside down and turn it inside out three times in a decade.
 
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narf

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Well i guess it's me who doesn't see the point you're trying to make.
Virtually everything in F1 is artificial. Take the tyres again, why in the world would you have to use both primes and options? Artificial right there.
My point is, being artificial does not make an aspect necessarily bad. Some artificial stuff is good, some isn't.



Disagree. I don't know what you mean saying "artificial", for me it's obligation of choosing a slower solution.
Dunno about artificial myself, just using that term with Cpt. J :)

Almost everything in the F1 rules is about making cars slower. No double diffusers, no (traditional) blown diffusers, no F-ducts, no ground effects, no V10/V12/turbos, grooved tyres back in the day, etc etc etc
If a rule is bad if it forces cars to be slower then you should do away with pretty much every rule in the book. Hell, bring back a six-wheeled car with a fan for suction and an old-fashioned turbo :driving:

Stopping during a race is one of the most common sights in motorsport.
We have more stops now than ever before (I think, dunno about the dark ages).
 

Finnley

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I thought Hamilton was going to pass Vettel at the end. But it was a really exciting race to me. I personally think the new rules/tires/DRS/KERS make F1 more spectacular to watch. Off course it's artificial, but I don't mind. It's just fun to watch. To me, that's the most important.
 

MadCow809

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$5 says you can have shit drivers in the Red Bull cars and the team would still win the championship...
You can seriously talk a lot of fucking nonsense. Did you even think it through before clicking the submit button?
 

mpicco

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Totally agree.
Massa should always crash into a barrier, bring out the Safety Car so Alonso can pit under Safety Car.
You can't even make an insulting joke correctly... Alonso pitted right before Piquet's crash and safety car, so everyone pitted in the safety car period bumping him to first.
Why don't you check your facts before trying to troll?
 

-Cpt. J.-

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Virtually everything in F1 is artificial. Take the tyres again, why in the world would you have to use both primes and options? Artificial right there.
My point is, being artificial does not make an aspect necessarily bad. Some artificial stuff is good, some isn't.


Dunno about artificial myself, just using that term with Cpt. J :)

Almost everything in the F1 rules is about making cars slower. No double diffusers, no (traditional) blown diffusers, no F-ducts, no ground effects, no V10/V12/turbos, grooved tyres back in the day, etc etc etc
If a rule is bad if it forces cars to be slower then you should do away with pretty much every rule in the book. Hell, bring back a six-wheeled car with a fan for suction and an old-fashioned turbo :driving:

We have more stops now than ever before (I think, dunno about the dark ages).
There is no need to twist my words and take me for an idiot. You don't have to agree with me, i really don't care if you do or not. Surely I am not the only one who has noticed DRS is a joke and a falty way to make overtaking easy. On some tracks it's far too easy, on others it is basicly pointless. While on other tracks, like Monaco, the drivers don't even want to use it. It's the tyres that have had the biggest effect this year and it's not artificial, it's strategy.

FIA added the prime+option rule to force the teams to use both available compuonds to increase the importance of pit strategy. There were two types of dry tyres available for teams even before this rule was in effect but one of the available compunds was hardly ever used.

Forcing the teams to use the inferior tyre is yes, slowing down the cars but it adds a strategic element to the races and so it brings something to the sport. It is good to have, it's not a pointless rule. The thing is that the Bridgestone tyres used last year were in many ways too good. On many tracks even the softer tyre was good enough to finish the race without pitting.

Having a overtaking zone on a track where a driver can pass another car easier with hardly any effort doesn't add anything good to the sport or its image. It was already clear in Malaysia when Webber passed a Renault before the DRS zone and during the DRS zone the Renault overtook Webber again. All Webber had to do is wait for the DRS zone on the next lap and pass the Renault again. I think it was Petrov, not sure. People who follow F1 want the drivers to be the ones who overtake, you know, they want to see FIA increase driver importance. Passing someone by pressing a button is not increasing driver importance.

What's this about dark ages...?
FYI F1 had a no refuel rule before. It was scrapped to make the pit stops mean something. We have a lot of pit stops during races, true. But the point I am trying to make is that all these stops add very little to the races. If FIA could just allow refuelling again the pit stops would count even more. Many of the things you listed were banned because yes they made the cars too fast so they were banned for safety reasons. I don't want anyone to die on the track. I wanna see teamwork on pitstops. F1 is a team sport after all and more complex pit stops means more focus on team effort.

You can't even make an insulting joke correctly... Alonso pitted right before Piquet's crash and safety car, so everyone pitted in the safety car period bumping him to first.
Why don't you check your facts before trying to troll?
I am sorry I'm not good when it comes to cheating.
Thank's for clearing it up tho. You're right. Massa should always crash on lap9. If Alonso happens to be behind him he should hold on until lap10.

Satisfied?
 
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