2011 Kia Optima Turbo First Drive

Spectre

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Because it hasn't been launched yet? They start selling early next year here first.
You misunderstand - I haven't seen anyone driving a 2010 Jetta around in the wild yet! And I'm pretty sure those have been on sale for a while now... :p As for the 2011s, the local dealership website says they have 24 in stock right now, replete with pictures!

There was also a recent 'identify this car' thread where one that was a few weeks old had been wrecked. Not sure where you're getting the 'haven't been launched yet' idea.

Haven't seen any examples of the all-new 2011 Jetta driving around in the wild yet, either.

That's because it's rrrrrrubbish. Can't decontent a Golf and throw a backpack on it and expect it'll sell on price, it's a VW, it should sell because it's good, not because it's cheap.
Sorry, but the new Golf is 1) not much better and 2) not selling very well either. Yes, even the German-made GTI has issues - the one CrazyJeeper's brother owns has a nasty habit of randomly cranking the bass on the stereo way up for no apparent reason. And I believe you can talk to Shawn about the odd noises his GTI is making when it rains.

But there's god only knows how many of the new Kia Fortes and Souls running around. The latter is often spotted in that bilious green color that people seem to like those little boxes in.
 
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AiR

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Sorry, but the new Golf is 1) not much better and 2) not selling very well either. Yes, even the German-made GTI has issues - the one CrazyJeeper's brother owns has a nasty habit of randomly cranking the bass on the stereo way up for no apparent reason. And I believe you can talk to Shawn about the odd noises his GTI is making when it rains.
Yes it is, and it doesnt come with engines from the K-period either like the Jetta. The Golf sells like icecream in hell all across the world, VW just made car #111111111, a blue Golf GTI. Any Chrysler, now that's a vehicle that doesnt sell, anywhere.

The Soul has a problem in Europe, it wants to compete with the Skoda Yeti & Co. but lacks the refinement, and it's hard to sell on "shag carpet on dashboard" to teenagers because teenagers do not buy new cars. According to a SE/NO-study, 40% of the 18-24 group have no drivers license. By my logic the further south we go in Europe the lower the need for a car at all, which further increases the competition for the manufacturers. There's a reason all premium car brands of the world come from Germany, that's where the demands on the products by the customers are the highest and where the natural enviroment is the toughest (in short: extremely picky owners and the autobahn). Same reason tiny Sweden has two of the biggest truck manufacturers, much heavier and longer vehicles than most of the world and a harsh cold climate.

But I digress, this KIA looks great, if it drives well and undercuts it's rivals in price. And the Jetta is useless and should be thrown on the dump.
 
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rickhamilton620

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I really like the way this looks over the Sonata, it's much cleaner and will probably age better over time. The interior also seems better than Sonata, and I really like the SX specific gauge cluster:


Same could go for the Sportage in terms of styling cleanliness.

I'm a bit disappointed in the ride quality reviews of recent Kia products. The "transitional" stuff (Kia's the "fun, sporty" brand while Hyundai is "luxury, refinement") seems to have the best combo of good handling and a proper ride. These would be the last Sportage, Optima and current Sedona. All three are somewhat firmly sprung yet don't experience the crashing and flintyness that the new stuff does.

If they iron out the ride issues, and offer a beige interior on the SX (yes, everyone hates beige/black two tone....except for me) it would be perfect.
 

TC

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Meanwhile, I STILL haven't seen a new Jetta in the wild, and I live near a VW dealership!
I finally saw one the other day. Followed it onto the freeway for quite a while. I thought they looked like crap from all the photos I've seen, but it looked surprisingly good in person. They somehow made it appear upscale and high quality. I suspect witchcraft was involved.

:p
 

awdrifter

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I really like the way this looks over the Sonata, it's much cleaner and will probably age better over time. The interior also seems better than Sonata, and I really like the SX specific gauge cluster:


Same could go for the Sportage in terms of styling cleanliness.

I'm a bit disappointed in the ride quality reviews of recent Kia products. The "transitional" stuff (Kia's the "fun, sporty" brand while Hyundai is "luxury, refinement") seems to have the best combo of good handling and a proper ride. These would be the last Sportage, Optima and current Sedona. All three are somewhat firmly sprung yet don't experience the crashing and flintyness that the new stuff does.

If they iron out the ride issues, and offer a beige interior on the SX (yes, everyone hates beige/black two tone....except for me) it would be perfect.
Someone need to hack that boot up screen to say "Welcome Mr. Bond".
 

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mmmhh, ok that not a typicle grey plastic middleages interior anymore, but if the European version turns out to be just like a 1980's mk3 Escort interior again, they fail again.

Its all about quality, a Kia or a Hyundai still sounds like its beeing assembled at a Fridge factory, some cars still looks and feels like. (Like this horrible Shitbox I posted yesterday)
 

Spectre

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Yes it is, and it doesnt come with engines from the K-period either like the Jetta. The Golf sells like icecream in hell all across the world, VW just made car #111111111, a blue Golf GTI.
No, the GTI isn't selling well at all here in the US - which is what I am referring to.

There's a reason all premium car brands of the world come from Germany, that's where the demands on the products by the customers are the highest and where the natural enviroment is the toughest (in short: extremely picky owners and the autobahn).
This doesn't come from Germany.


Neither does this.


May be owned by Germans now, but it sure as hell does not come from Germany. Sorry, but in the hierarchy of badges, the German marques aren't in the same league as Rolls and Bentley. And Bugatti is French. :p

Same reason tiny Sweden has two of the biggest truck manufacturers, much heavier and longer vehicles than most of the world and a harsh cold climate.
Yeah, sorry, what was that? I couldn't hear you over the sound of all the Freightliners, Peterbilts, Macks, Internationals, Kenworths, Isuzus, UDs, Mitsubishis and the like that all outsell the entire heavy truck production of Europe. :p


mmmhh, ok that not a typicle grey plastic middleages interior anymore, but if the European version turns out to be just like a 1980's mk3 Escort interior again, they fail again.

Its all about quality, a Kia or a Hyundai still sounds like its beeing assembled at a Fridge factory, some cars still looks and feels like. (Like this horrible Shitbox I posted yesterday)
Um, looked at the A3 lately? One reason they're not selling well in the US is because they want a boatload of money and don't sound any better than said Kia or Hyundai.

Besides, why would they spend any effort on a continent of badge snobs who generally aren't going to buy their product anyway yet impose ever increasing regulation? :p Were I in charge of their product development I'd relegate your continent to "leftovers," too - especially considering how fast Hyundai and Kia are growing in North America and Asia. (The US buys more cars in a year than, IIRC, all the countries in Europe combined. By not a small margin, either.)

It's a simple matter of priorities and economics; if you conquer the Asian and North American markets, you're set. Conquer the European market and you still don't have that much sales. Do you pay more attention to the market in which you can sell 1 million cars a year, or the one in which, best case scenario, you will maybe ever sell 100,000? I know which one I'd go after first. (And, I would point out, the larger market is also one at which many of the 'top line' and 'most popular' manufacturers from the smaller one have been kicked out of despite bringing their 'best' products.)
 
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ninjacoco

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I can't believe I'm saying it, but there's something futuristic and almost...attractive about the looks of that Kia. Usually Kia's looks are eeeeew, but that's not half bad. Not having the actual driveability of the car quite sorted isn't good, though, so...do not want. But they're obviously moving away from "Killed in Action" by putting a more powerful motor in it. They're moving up, IMHO, and yes, I see Kias everywhere here.
I finally saw one the other day. Followed it onto the freeway for quite a while. I thought they looked like crap from all the photos I've seen, but it looked surprisingly good in person. They somehow made it appear upscale and high quality. I suspect witchcraft was involved.

:p
Looks can be deceiving.

DRUMS.

OMG DRUMS.

WTF, VW?! Give us a good compact sedan again. Not one with DRUMS in 2010 (or 2011). They made the Jetta look boring and the Passat look like a Hyundai in the worst way possible. The Golf is the only model they have that's mildly attractive anymore.
 

katwalk

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wait, wait, hold it.
A NEW Jetta has drum brakes?


:|


In perspective, my mexican built, aimed at americans, built on an outdated platform for 10 years 2003 Beetle does not. I clearly remember that I've got disks because I pulled up a comparison between the PT Cruiser and my car back in 05' and mom was a bit horrified she had drums on the rear wheels.




ON TOPIC
I like new Kias. Fuck bag snobbery, yank the badges off and no one will know unless they are familiar with kias
 
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AiR

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No, the GTI isn't selling well at all here in the US - which is what I am referring to.
You need to learn how to read between the lines. The point is that the Golf is a huge success all across the world, unlike say the F150 that only sells in America (and isnt even a car).

Yeah, sorry, what was that? I couldn't hear you over the sound of all the Freightliners, Peterbilts, Macks, Internationals, Kenworths, Isuzus, UDs, Mitsubishis and the like that all outsell the entire heavy truck production of Europe. :p
No doubt their success was so monumental they had to be saved by a bunch of germans and swedes. Outselling production in the local market is a moot point, Scanias are produced in Brazil too because it's stupid to make build an entire truck and then send it on a big boat to brazil.

Car registrations in Europe for the first nine months of 2010 equals 10?575?961 units, someone else may try and find the corresponding number for the USA. Note CARS. Not anything else. Pickups are not cars.

I really like the way this looks over the Sonata, it's much cleaner and will probably age better over time. The interior also seems better than Sonata, and I really like the SX specific gauge cluster:


Same could go for the Sportage in terms of styling cleanliness.

I'm a bit disappointed in the ride quality reviews of recent Kia products. The "transitional" stuff (Kia's the "fun, sporty" brand while Hyundai is "luxury, refinement") seems to have the best combo of good handling and a proper ride. These would be the last Sportage, Optima and current Sedona. All three are somewhat firmly sprung yet don't experience the crashing and flintyness that the new stuff does.

If they iron out the ride issues, and offer a beige interior on the SX (yes, everyone hates beige/black two tone....except for me) it would be perfect.
My friend bought a Samsung TV yesterday and that makes those infuriating noises when it starts and turns off too. I hope there is an OFF switch for that. I do not want a car that says "Thank you". It's supposed to be a car, not a Tamagotchi.
 
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Spectre

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You need to learn how to read between the lines. The point is that the Golf is a huge success all across the world, unlike say the F150 that only sells in America (and isnt even a car).
How can the Golf be a huge success 'all across the world' when it's not selling well in the number one developed car market in the world? It's also not selling well in China, the largest developing market in the world. It doesn't sell well in Japan, Korea or India. Those would seem to be some pretty big exceptions there.

No doubt their success was so monumental they had to be saved by a bunch of germans and swedes. Outselling production in the local market is a moot point, Scanias are produced in Brazil too because it's stupid to make build an entire truck and then send it on a big boat to brazil.
International wasn't helped, PACCAR owns Peterbilt, Kenworth, DAF and Leyland. PACCAR alone dwarfs Scania and by itself is the third largest heavy truck maker in the world and second in the US. If you remove all the US divisions of Daimler (many of which were successful in their own right but were snagged by Daimler's classic 'undervalued stock buy' technique), they drop to 12th or so; the US divisions alone beat Volvo's production.

Car registrations in Europe for the first nine months of 2010 equals 10?575?961 units, someone else may try and find the corresponding number for the USA. Note CARS. Not anything else. Pickups are not cars.
Unfortunately for you, the light trucks are classed as cars. And if they're not cars, neither are those 1 cubic meter van things, MPVs or vans. Please break them out accordingly and cite your source.

I noticed you sidestepped the issue of the top luxury cars not coming from Germany.
 
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Mitlov

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I can't believe I'm saying it, but there's something futuristic and almost...attractive about the looks of that Kia. Usually Kia's looks are eeeeew, but that's not half bad. Not having the actual driveability of the car quite sorted isn't good, though, so...do not want. But they're obviously moving away from "Killed in Action" by putting a more powerful motor in it. They're moving up, IMHO, and yes, I see Kias everywhere here.
Yeah, the drivability issues are obviously a deal-breaker, but Kia finally seems to have gotten its styling sorted. My favorite new Kia, looks-wise, is the Forte five-door. Nothing fancy about it, but just well-executed:



 

AudiV6

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This doesn't come from Germany.


Neither does this.


May be owned by Germans now, but it sure as hell does not come from Germany. Sorry, but in the hierarchy of badges, the German marques aren't in the same league as Rolls and Bentley. And Bugatti is French. :p
Yes they aren't assembled in Germany, but they're developped by Germans, designed partly by Belgiums and only built together in their herritage country's to keep their "made in the UK" or "french" sign. And you can surtonly make anyone from any country building Cars under High quality standards, hell even in China if you want.

Um, looked at the A3 lately? One reason they're not selling well in the US is because they want a boatload of money and don't sound any better than said Kia or Hyundai.
Despite it's beeing around for lets be honest nearly 9 years now, without beeing heavily modified? :p

Besides, why would they spend any effort on a continent of badge snobs who generally aren't going to buy their product anyway yet impose ever increasing regulation? :p Were I in charge of their product development I'd relegate your continent to "leftovers," too - especially considering how fast Hyundai and Kia are growing in North America and Asia. (The US buys more cars in a year than, IIRC, all the countries in Europe combined. By not a small margin, either.
It's not about the bagde, it's about what they trying to sell to us with all their afforts, and thats basicly not very cheap and not particular good, like for intstance a Dacia or an Daihatsu. Toyota knew about that problem and gone not for cheap, but good, and they actually sold really good before their international crises, and they did it with just that thing I said = quality.

It's a simple matter of priorities and economics; if you conquer the Asian and North American markets, you're set. Conquer the European market and you still don't have that much sales. Do you pay more attention to the market in which you can sell 1 million cars a year, or the one in which, best case scenario, you will maybe ever sell 100,000? I know which one I'd go after first. (And, I would point out, the larger market is also one at which many of the 'top line' and 'most popular' manufacturers from the smaller one have been kicked out of despite bringing their 'best' products.)
when they sell less then 100.000 Cars a year, why pull into the market at all?


Even Daewoo (branded as Chevrolet) is doing better I think, you only have to look at their Splash (or Spark), it looks stylish and is availeble for just 8000?, in terms of quality (thanks to dashboards from Opel), they not that bad either anymore, its much better than a Picanto.

Now before I start growing grey hair and wearing Wolfskin-Jaketts, I rather stop. :lol:
 
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AiR

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International wasn't helped, PACCAR owns Peterbilt, Kenworth, DAF and Leyland. PACCAR alone dwarfs Scania and by itself is the third largest heavy truck maker in the world and second in the US. If you remove all the US divisions of Daimler (many of which were successful in their own right but were snagged by Daimler's classic 'undervalued stock buy' technique), they drop to 12th or so; the US divisions alone beat Volvo's production.
Apples and oranges. PACCAR is the worlds 8th truck maker, Volvo is the 2nd largest. VW (Scania) and MAN will merge and push down Paccar to 9th.

Unfortunately for you, the light trucks are classed as cars. And if they're not cars, neither are those 1 cubic meter van things, MPVs or vans. Please break them out accordingly and cite your source.
No, that number is passenger cars. An MPV is obvously a passenger car. A van is not, nor is a minibus, which is why they are accounted for separately. The US seems to have no common statistics, at least none that I could find. For Europe that's neatly compiled by ACEA.

http://www.acea.be/index.php/news/news_detail/new_vehicle_registrations_by_country/

Nice spreadsheets to download.
 

chaos386

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No, that number is passenger cars. An MPV is obvously a passenger car. A van is not, nor is a minibus, which is why they are accounted for separately. The US seems to have no common statistics, at least none that I could find.
The problem with that thinking is that Americans use pickups as passenger cars, so...
 

katwalk

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The problem with that thinking is that Americans use pickups as passenger cars, so...
Yeah, using the F150 as an example in comparing it to the gti is like saying "More people buy golfs then miatas, obviously the golf is better" and not taking into account people might be more likely to buy any car that has 5 seats and some place to put groceries.

Here's a more reasonable comparison and far more on topic. I have seen on the road more Kia Souls than the MK6 golfs. Actually I can't remember seeing any MK6 golfs, I have seen a couple jettas/passats/CCs of the same age but all the golfs I see are MK5 or sooner and I rarely see a GTI period.
 
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