2017 Formula One silly season thread

mpicco

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I can hardly understand how Kvyat still has points in his superlicense. It doesn't make sense at all. He's the new Maldonado and nobody seems to say anything about it.
 

Kiskaloo

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Max's official fanclub is reporting red bull had it with sainz' moaning and has been shown the door. He most likely won't be in the car in Hungary...
There were some mixed signals about Carlos and Renault during the British Grand Prix. One rumor said TR had put him up on offer at a cool GBP 8 million. Another said he would be in a Renault at Hungary to replace Palmer, though Renault's Team Principal denied it on the grid to NBCSN's Will Buxton.

If Carlos is in a Renault at Hungary, I am guessing they came to an agreement on the price.
 
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NooDle

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Cue the haters saying he doesn't deserve it, driver x should have gotten the chance, etc
 

mpicco

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Not gonna say who deserves what or why, I just think it's a bad decision, looking plainly at numbers, if Ferrari hopes to win the constructor's championship any time soon. He's just not delivering the results with the hardware at hand. Ferrari has been doing this for a decade now, anyway, so kinda used to it.
 

Four Five Eight

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Kimi delivers when the hardware at hand actually works, were you expecting him to win Azerbaijan from 2 laps down after the restart with I think 10ish laps to go?
Ferrari seemed to lack pace in general in Canada but he did get brake failure.
A puncture knocked him out of 2nd in Silverstone.
In Hungary the team made him stick in 2nd to protect Vettel.
Austria he had some sort of issue and a strategy which didn't work for him at all.
And in Spain Bottas punted him into Verstappen much to the disappointment of a french child.
Maybe Kimi hasn't performed on Seb's level the whole season, his first few races were a bit lacklustre since for whatever reason he couldn't get the car the way he wanted it but I'm sure he's shown to Ferrari that he's got enough pace to warrant keeping him on another year. The gap to Ferrari in the constructors is a hell of a lot smaller then it was last year and Ferrari have shown that a 1/2 finish is achievable without Mercedes screwing up. In fact both teams have the same number of 1/2s and Mercedes are only equal to Ferrari because of Kimi getting a puncture at Silverstone.
 

bone

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also, with vettel relucatant to sing a new (multi year) deal, they can use kimi as bargaining tool (vettel wants kimi as a teammate!)
and if vettel were to leave, i think ferrari will be happy they have one familiar face left

so it's kind of a no brainer...
 

mpicco

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Kimi delivers when the hardware at hand actually works, were you expecting him to win Azerbaijan from 2 laps down after the restart with I think 10ish laps to go?
Ferrari seemed to lack pace in general in Canada but he did get brake failure.
A puncture knocked him out of 2nd in Silverstone.
In Hungary the team made him stick in 2nd to protect Vettel.
Austria he had some sort of issue and a strategy which didn't work for him at all.
And in Spain Bottas punted him into Verstappen much to the disappointment of a french child.
Maybe Kimi hasn't performed on Seb's level the whole season, his first few races were a bit lacklustre since for whatever reason he couldn't get the car the way he wanted it but I'm sure he's shown to Ferrari that he's got enough pace to warrant keeping him on another year. The gap to Ferrari in the constructors is a hell of a lot smaller then it was last year and Ferrari have shown that a 1/2 finish is achievable without Mercedes screwing up. In fact both teams have the same number of 1/2s and Mercedes are only equal to Ferrari because of Kimi getting a puncture at Silverstone.
Excuses.

When year after year you gotta make excuses for the second driver at Ferrari "because he's good but he's not lucky" you start to see a trend. I can grab your comment and go back to the Massa years and find something extremely similar from apologists. At that point it was Massa being completely and utterly eclipsed by Alonso but nobody would have the balls to say "yeah, you know what, Massa's just not good enough right now". Same old same old, I for one would like seeing two strong drivers at Ferrari for a change, some of the most exciting seasons as a Ferrari fan was when indeed Massa and Kimi were on the top of their game and battling as team mates.
Personally I would like to see someone extremely talented who would even push Vettel further but even more importantly to allow Ferrari to fight for the top spots with both cars every time. Enough excuses.
 

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Yeah sure blame Kimi for mechanical failures, Brake failure? Excuse I guess. They put you back in the race 2 laps down? So what, What Bottas broke your suspension and you had to retire? That wouldn't have stopped Alonso! You've got a puncture? Suck it up it should be easy to take back 20 - 30 seconds in 10 laps.

As for the Felipe comparison? I like Felipe but he just wasn't driving as well as Kimi has been with the exception of the 2014 season which apparently disqualifies everything Kimi has done since then even though it was a car almost tailor-made to make him look crap. Sure you could make excuses for Felipe, his Team mate was Alonso... Alonso was his team mate. Fernando is faster then you and then Kimi Raikkonen is available you say? And who else is there that isn't tied down to their contract? Vettel has a title to fight for he is being pushed.
Felipe 2010 144 5 podiums Kimi 2014 55 points 0 podiums
Felipe 2011 118 0 podiums Kimi 2015 150 points 3 podiums
Felipe 2012 122 2 podiums Kimi 2016 186 points 4 podiums
Felipe 2013 112 1 podiums Kimi 2017 116 points 4 podiums and the season still has 9 races to go.

Excuses my ass, it's reality.
 
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mpicco

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Oh look more excuses!

I can't even start believing the suggestion that one driver gets RANDOM FAILURES more than another driver with the same car. Are you suggesting sabotage? In average, and in the long run, mechanical failures will be about the same for each driver.

I just said when Felipe and Kimi were on top of their game. That was 07 and 08. In 2009 F1 went to shit, Ferrari couldn't make the car work.

Don't even know what you're trying to "prove" by comparing their point tallies in very different years of car development.

The 2010 car was a contending for a title with Alonso, yet Massa only brought it to 6th place.
2011 was a brick.
2012 again Alonso contending for the title, Massa 7th.
2013, another brick.

In contrast, from the turbo era forward the car was always getting better and better. No ups and downs like since 2009. That's why Raikkonen's tally is going up and up yet STILL way behind his team mate, be it Alonso or Vettel.
2015 was the closest year in points and this is how it tallies:
Vettel 9 podiums, 3 race wins, 278 points
Rai 3 podiums

2017 has 9 races to go and wow Kimi so many points? Barely half of his teammates', has the same amount of podiums as his teammate has race wins.

It's not the tale of successful #2 drivers no matter how you spin it and that's why Ferrari hasn't been the constructor's champion since 08.
 

NooDle

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You do realise you're the only person ever to care more about the WCC than the WDC, right?

I get why the teams care (more monies, yaaaay), but regular people support a driver... and unfortunately for you many of them like Kimi, despite his sometimes poor results.
 

mpicco

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The last WDC for Ferrari was, again, in 07. When there were two strong drivers.
Whatever you care about, having a very good #1 and a very mediocre #2 does not seem to work. Even in '00-'04, Barrichello was a strong driver.

I get why people like Kimi, he's got that weird personality which makes him funny and quirky at times, but how does that benefit Ferrari as a racing team at all?
 

Four Five Eight

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Oh look more excuses!

I can't even start believing the suggestion that one driver gets RANDOM FAILURES more than another driver with the same car. Are you suggesting sabotage? In average, and in the long run, mechanical failures will be about the same for each driver.

I just said when Felipe and Kimi were on top of their game. That was 07 and 08. In 2009 F1 went to shit, Ferrari couldn't make the car work.

Don't even know what you're trying to "prove" by comparing their point tallies in very different years of car development.

The 2010 car was a contending for a title with Alonso, yet Massa only brought it to 6th place.
2011 was a brick.
2012 again Alonso contending for the title, Massa 7th.
2013, another brick.

In contrast, from the turbo era forward the car was always getting better and better. No ups and downs like since 2009. That's why Raikkonen's tally is going up and up yet STILL way behind his team mate, be it Alonso or Vettel.
2015 was the closest year in points and this is how it tallies:
Vettel 9 podiums, 3 race wins, 278 points
Rai 3 podiums

2017 has 9 races to go and wow Kimi so many points? Barely half of his teammates', has the same amount of podiums as his teammate has race wins.

It's not the tale of successful #2 drivers no matter how you spin it and that's why Ferrari hasn't been the constructor's champion since 08.
What a load of crap, fact is sometimes a driver has worse luck with reliability than the other driver. It's not sabotage it's just the way things go in Formula 1 sometimes. Are you trying to say that these failures didn't happen? Or that Kimi broke the car on purpose? Sebastian also had a blowout at Silverstone do you blame that on him as well? The worse finishing position Kimi has had this year is a 7th place and he had brake failure, the same brake failure that has retired several drivers since the start of the hybrid turbo era so to suggest that Kimi shouldn't have been affected by it is idiotic.
Kimi has shown improvement year after year as he adapted to the car and the team, the opposite was true of Felipe though he may have just given up since he was partnered with Alonso. 2015 was the closes year in points? 2015 was a 128 point gap in part because Sebastian won 3 races and Kimi crashed a lot but also the following year he out qualified Vettel and the gap was only 26 points. He probably could've beaten Vettel last year but he had a broken wheel nut and a big crash in brazil.
This is looking to be a championship year for Vettel but the gap at the end of the year won't be what it is now. Maybe you can blame 2012 on Felipe but you can't blame Kimi for 2014, 2015 and 2016 even if Seb and Alonso had cloned themselves and been their own teammate they wouldn't have won the constructors championship. In 2015 the gap to Mercedes was more that Vettel scored that year. The last WDC for Ferrari by the way? Kimi and while Massa was quick that year he wasn't exactly a strong driver, in fact I would say that his mistakes that year cost him a chance at the championship. The only reason they won the constructors that year is because McLaren was DSQed, by you're reasoning they should've glided into the 2006 constructors championship but they lost it by 5 points, 5 points. I'll bet that if Ferrari wins the constructors this year you'll roll your eyes and say that Vettel won it on his own.
 

mpicco

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Calling a world champion a mediocre #2 :lol:
All sportsmen have their peaks and their declines. Being a world champion doesn't mean you'll be world championship-good forever. Kimi was WC 10 years ago. MSC was 7 times WC and he retired when he was Kimi's current age, then came back, I don't think anyone will argue he was on form to be a champion even on a contender car. He knew that and retired for good.



What a load of crap, fact is sometimes a driver has worse luck with reliability than the other driver. It's not sabotage it's just the way things go in Formula 1 sometimes. Are you trying to say that these failures didn't happen? Or that Kimi broke the car on purpose? Sebastian also had a blowout at Silverstone do you blame that on him as well? The worse finishing position Kimi has had this year is a 7th place and he had brake failure, the same brake failure that has retired several drivers since the start of the hybrid turbo era so to suggest that Kimi shouldn't have been affected by it is idiotic.
When did I say he shouldn't be affected? If anything I said exactly the opposite, that in the long run, the amount of mechanical failures for both drivers from a team would end up being more or less the same.

Kimi has shown improvement year after year as he adapted to the car and the team, the opposite was true of Felipe though he may have just given up since he was partnered with Alonso.
So let me get this straight. Kimi returns to Ferrari, a team he had already been in for many years, in 2014. Vettel joins in 2015. Yet Kimi is the one still adapting and getting used to the new team? Maybe the car is a little more tailored for Seb than Kimi, but damn, their performance is way far apart sometimes.

The last WDC for Ferrari by the way? Kimi and while Massa was quick that year he wasn't exactly a strong driver, in fact I would say that his mistakes that year cost him a chance at the championship.
Again that was 10 years ago. Age changes sportsmen and they all have a peak and decline. In top competition you can't just rest on your laurels.
Let's pretend the championship ended right now and Vettel was champion. Massa was 4th that year. Kimi is 5th right now. So you're arguing Massa wasn't driving strongly that year yet Kimi is? Right.

The only reason they won the constructors that year is because McLaren was DSQed, by you're reasoning they should've glided into the 2006 constructors championship but they lost it by 5 points, 5 points.
Hey guess what McLaren had that year and would have earned them the WCC? Two strong drivers

I'll bet that if Ferrari wins the constructors this year you'll roll your eyes and say that Vettel won it on his own.
I give credit where credit's due. Kimi was a great driver and he was on his game in his last years with McLaren and the first seasons with Ferrari (didn't need that so called "getting used to the new team and car for 4 years" back then, it seems). Then he went away from F1 to everyone's surprise and when he came back it seemed he was gonna go for blood, 3rd with that Lotus, damn. But since then he's been hit and miss, very inconsistent, and as I said before, the guy is not getting younger.
I was not a fan of Vettel not even Alonso when they joined Ferrari, but they both have shown their skill and earned my respect.
Am I saying I have no respect or admiration for Kimi as a driver? Hell no, he's one of the elite, but right now the elite has some other drivers which I think would bring the team I support better results.
 
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