4 Fast 4 Furious: The return of the Diesel [crank] Walker

starfox07 said:
This method is primarily used on Honda's with Vtec engines. Vtec will not activate until hydraulic pressure is built up, so sometimes, in order to kick it in earlier (thinking that this actually helps) they bump up the Rev's, engaging vtec, if they shift to low. The only thing is, hot cam profiles (essentially what vtec is) are bad for low end, and Honda calculates at what RPM vtec would be the most smooth and effective transition point, and sets it there.
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i don't want to get in a argument about Vtec, but as far as i'm aware its all computer preset. So double clutching is irrelevant, as well it by no means is set at the best transition point, pretty much any variable valve system that has been mass produced has been improved by dorks working with megasquirt. I know from my brief dwelling in 2zz engines that knocking the engagement point down from 6200 to about 5400 is worth about 1/2 a second on the dragstrip. More importantly though it will hold traction better as all factory Vtec systems (atleast the Japanese ones) like to jolt and shudder, which completely fucks up everything if your trying to exit a sweeping corner at the threshold of traction.

Point is your giving factory Vtec more credit then it deserves. Its a great idea, but nore Honda or Toyota for that matter really tune it that well, and i don't care if your talking about a K20, or a F22, or a 2zz or blahdy blahdy and blah, they all shudder and they all come programmed from the factory by scaredy cat loosers who should be given 40 lashings for failing on what otherwise is a wonderful idea.
 
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Ottobon said:
i don't want to get in a argument about Vtec, but as far as i'm aware its all computer preset. So double clutching is irrelevant, as well it by no means is set at the best transition point, pretty much any variable valve system that has been mass produced has been improved by dorks working with megasquirt. I know from my brief dwelling in 2zz engines that knocking the engagement point down from 6200 to about 5400 is worth about 1/2 a second on the dragstrip. More importantly though it will hold traction better as all factory Vtec systems (atleast the Japanese ones) like to jolt and shudder, which completely fucks up everything if your trying to exit a sweeping corner at the threshold of traction.

Point is your giving factory Vtec more credit then it deserves. Its a great idea, but nore Honda or Toyota for that matter really tune it that well, and i don't care if your talking about a K20, or a F22, or a 2zz or blahdy blahdy and blah, they all shudder and they all come programmed from the factory by scaredy cat loosers who should be given 40 lashings for failing on what otherwise is a wonderful idea.
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The problem with VTEC (IMO) is that there is no reason to have an "economy" profile and "performance" profile on ANY car. If you get an economy car your engine should be tuned for economy, if you get a performance car your engine should be tuned for performance. There is no reason whatsoever for VTEC to not continually adjust valve timing at any RPM point to give you the most performance from 0RPM - redline or if you are driving economy to adjust it for best economy at the same range.

If you want "economy" and "perfomance" profiles get a *laggy* turbo. As long as you stay out of turbo spool range you will get decent economy (depending on the engine).

***Before I get jumped here, this is all my opinion, I am not forcing it on anyone***
 
prizrak said:
The problem with VTEC (IMO) is that there is no reason to have an "economy" profile and "performance" profile on ANY car. If you get an economy car your engine should be tuned for economy, if you get a performance car your engine should be tuned for performance. There is no reason whatsoever for VTEC to not continually adjust valve timing at any RPM point to give you the most performance from 0RPM - redline or if you are driving economy to adjust it for best economy at the same range.

If you want "economy" and "perfomance" profiles get a *laggy* turbo. As long as you stay out of turbo spool range you will get decent economy (depending on the engine).

***Before I get jumped here, this is all my opinion, I am not forcing it on anyone***
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Laggy turbos have drivability issues. And there are those of us that like the idea of having a car that is very docile for daily use, but when you are pissed off and want to ring it every last inch of life out of it, you can rev it to 8200rpm. Also the 2 profiles tend to be tuned to provide a wide, smooth torque curve.

With that being said, weak spring on the wastegate, and an EBC can do quite a bit to improve economy without killing performance when you want it.
 
I just re-downloaded the first movie because of this thread and.... wow...

I'd forgotten how horrible it was. I mean they are all pretty ridiculous, but the third one is miles above the first. I can actually watch and enjoy it in a perverse MST3K sort of way.

That nerdy kid with the riced out VW, they never even explain if he dies or not. "Oh no, this kid i love so much just got shot, lets go drive away and have a drag race." *End of movie*
 
^ I wonder if Frankie Munez still has it LOL
 
Ottobon said:
i don't want to get in a argument about Vtec, but as far as i'm aware its all computer preset. So double clutching is irrelevant, as well it by no means is set at the best transition point, pretty much any variable valve system that has been mass produced has been improved by dorks working with megasquirt. I know from my brief dwelling in 2zz engines that knocking the engagement point down from 6200 to about 5400 is worth about 1/2 a second on the dragstrip. More importantly though it will hold traction better as all factory Vtec systems (atleast the Japanese ones) like to jolt and shudder, which completely fucks up everything if your trying to exit a sweeping corner at the threshold of traction.

Point is your giving factory Vtec more credit then it deserves. Its a great idea, but nore Honda or Toyota for that matter really tune it that well, and i don't care if your talking about a K20, or a F22, or a 2zz or blahdy blahdy and blah, they all shudder and they all come programmed from the factory by scaredy cat loosers who should be given 40 lashings for failing on what otherwise is a wonderful idea.
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I've never ridden in a Vtec honda that shudders. Nor have I ever heard of an F22 vtec. The vtec system didn't have the continuously variable timing (I believe it does now) because it was a system from the early 1990's and I'm sure the technology for cam phasers was not advanced enough to be reliable. The vtec system has proved completely reliable, its simple, and it works. If you don't think it works, I don't know what to tell you, but Honda is pretty successful in motorsports; grassroots or otherwise.
 
BerserkerCatSplat said:
The only good thing about Vtec is that it works in reverse.
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Huh, something to try out on my friend's Civic :D.

A friend of mine told me that he went to see the third Fast and Furious movie in theaters. Upon leaving the theater, some douchebag in a lowered, body kitted Civic was trying to drift in the parking lot, right in front of the theater. First he smashed into the curb, then trying the same move again, hopped the curb, hit a light pole sideways, and ripped off his rear body kit as he tried to speed away with about 50 people laughing at him. For that reason and that reason alone, he'll go see the 4th installment :lol:.
 
prizrak said:
The problem with VTEC (IMO) is that there is no reason to have an "economy" profile and "performance" profile on ANY car. If you get an economy car your engine should be tuned for economy, if you get a performance car your engine should be tuned for performance. There is no reason whatsoever for VTEC to not continually adjust valve timing at any RPM point to give you the most performance from 0RPM - redline or if you are driving economy to adjust it for best economy at the same range.

If you want "economy" and "perfomance" profiles get a *laggy* turbo. As long as you stay out of turbo spool range you will get decent economy (depending on the engine).

***Before I get jumped here, this is all my opinion, I am not forcing it on anyone***
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The economy thing is more of a side effect of having a cam that works well at low RPMs. If you've never driven a kitted out drag racer then you wont really understand. But really large cams that make a lot of horsepower only make that power on the red side of the tachometer. Idle and off idle you have literally NO power (The smaller the cam is the more you'll have thre).

It's about driveability, not economy. Until you've been in a drag car that has to turn 4000 RPM just to move from a stop sign, you probably wont really grasp it.
 
prizrak said:
There is no reason whatsoever for VTEC to not continually adjust valve timing at any RPM point to give you the most performance from 0RPM - redline or if you are driving economy to adjust it for best economy at the same range.
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That's my beef with it. There's nothing wrong with having the best of both worlds, but it seems to me that there are much better, constantly variable systems than Vtec out there.

InfernalVortex said:
Until you've been in a drag car that has to turn 4000 RPM just to move from a stop sign, you probably wont really grasp it.
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But that's just fun. Crazy high stall converters, cams so lumpy you have to throw it in neutral when you stop, shit throttle response; good times :D.
 
thedguy said:
S2000's F20c/F22c both had Vtec.
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Ah I thought he meant the old accord F22. The F22 from the S2000 is really a K series (shares that architecture), but for one reason or another, it recieved the F designation.
 
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I can say i have watched all three movies, and the third did seem the least proposterous (sp?) as it was about drift cars which they seemed to depict fairly accurately (the cars that is, not the driving action). Of course, I am also able to recognize how utterly stupid and ridiculous they are, but that's what these goofy car movies are all about!
I did really like in the third movie that '71 monte carlo in the beginning, and i also liked how they realistically depicted it's handling- or lack thereof, notice in that drag race with the viper how that monte never quite gets around a corner without smashing into something. And the actual car had a BADass crate motor in it, i believe it was a Hardcore motorsports 590 c.i. engine making somewhere north of 750hp. There was an article about it in an issue of Hot Rod about the time the movie came out.
And i'm not even gonna try and get in the middle of this huge VTEC conversation as i know next to nothing about that kind of thing. I'm more of a muscle car guy (though i can appreciate all cars- just look at a 1932 Deusenburg SJ Murphy Phaeton!)
 
MrNailhead said:
I can say i have watched all three movies, and the third did seem the least proposterous (sp?) as it was about drift cars which they seemed to depict fairly accurately (the cars that is, not the driving action). Of course, I am also able to recognize how utterly stupid and ridiculous they are, but that's what these goofy car movies are all about!
I did really like in the third movie that '71 monte carlo in the beginning, and i also liked how they realistically depicted it's handling- or lack thereof, notice in that drag race with the viper how that monte never quite gets around a corner without smashing into something. And the actual car had a BADass crate motor in it, i believe it was a Hardcore motorsports 590 c.i. engine making somewhere north of 750hp. There was an article about it in an issue of Hot Rod about the time the movie came out.
And i'm not even gonna try and get in the middle of this huge VTEC conversation as i know next to nothing about that kind of thing. I'm more of a muscle car guy (though i can appreciate all cars- just look at a 1932 Deusenburg SJ Murphy Phaeton!)
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I'm pretty keen on both. :mrgreen:
 
souds good

should just as terrible as the last three.
 
tigger said:
Huh, something to try out on my friend's Civic :D.

A friend of mine told me that he went to see the third Fast and Furious movie in theaters. Upon leaving the theater, some douchebag in a lowered, body kitted Civic was trying to drift in the parking lot, right in front of the theater. First he smashed into the curb, then trying the same move again, hopped the curb, hit a light pole sideways, and ripped off his rear body kit as he tried to speed away with about 50 people laughing at him. For that reason and that reason alone, he'll go see the 4th installment :lol:.
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Heh, that's an amazing story. I wish I coulda seen that. I admit I saw the 3rd F&F movie in theaters, but only because I knew it would have some good stuntdriving and I was bored. I didn't care about the storyline, the people, or anything other than the stuntdriving.
 
deltableh said:
Heh, that's an amazing story. I wish I coulda seen that. I admit I saw the 3rd F&F movie in theaters, but only because I knew it would have some good stuntdriving and I was bored. I didn't care about the storyline, the people, or anything other than the stuntdriving.
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Besides the parts where its all CGI, the driving scenes from the 3rd movie were way better than the first and second. Although I still think its funny that according to the movie, drifting is the fastest way around a course. :lol: Maybe in the parking garage yes, because the turns are so tight, but not on that canyon road.
 
Silverstar, jayhawk, and other Rex owners....

look away now.....
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this is what Paul Walker will be driving. i know it looks almost close to stock, but the roofscoop and extra wide spoiler aren't doing it for me.
 
If they loose the roof scoop, its not too bad. Its still rice, but not too disgusting.
 
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