Another road death (local police + speed cameras)

GraemeH

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Remember the police man in the unmarked Vectra walking away from doing 147mph~ because he was "testing the limits of his vehicle"?

Last night, on a road pretty local to me with Specs (the speed cameras that measure your average speed between two points), an unmarked police car (Mercedes) travelling at high speed hit a Mitsubishi Shogun. The Shogun was rolled, the passenger side completely caved in (anyone in the passenger seat would have been killed instantly). The police car rolled into a field and caught fire. The driver is dead and the passenger is seriously injured.

Possible sources of blame?

1. On a streatch of road that enforces a 70mph average limit between two points, if a driver cruises at 70 for 99% of the distance, then 71 for 1%, they're done. The driver is forced to concentrate on their speedometer exclusively. To what degree is irrelevant; attention is still diverted from the things that GENUINELY prevent accidents, namely giving attention to the road around you, your mirrors, other cars movements, their distances and speeds relative to your own etc.

2. On such a road, any driver would assume no vehicle would be driving over 70mph. You can forgive someone for making that assumption (even if it isn't the smarted idea to presume anything), but what about when pulling out from a junction? Overtaking? On any other road a motorist would be weary of a car moving at high speed behind them before pulling out, or coming from the side when pulling out of a junction. The cameras lead to this presumption, and when an unmarked car is travelling well over, this presumpion becomes dangerous.

We'll probably never know if this was another "i was testing my vehicles limits" deal (the driver is dead), but i couldn't see anything coming of it anyway. I just hope the innocent party in the Shogun comes through.


 

fbc

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Re: Another road death (local police + speed cameras)

GraemeH said:
The driver is forced to concentrate on their speedometer exclusively. To what degree is irrelevant; attention is still diverted from the things that GENUINELY prevent accidents, namely giving attention to the road around you, your mirrors, other cars movements, their distances and speeds relative to your own etc.
Agree 100%. We have the same problem here - speed cameras in plague proportions, with a tolerance of 3km/h, even though our vehicle design rules allow a +/- 10% tolerance. So we're forced to watch our speedos...
 

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Re: Another road death (local police + speed cameras)

fbc said:
GraemeH said:
The driver is forced to concentrate on their speedometer exclusively. To what degree is irrelevant; attention is still diverted from the things that GENUINELY prevent accidents, namely giving attention to the road around you, your mirrors, other cars movements, their distances and speeds relative to your own etc.
Agree 100%. We have the same problem here - speed cameras in plague proportions, with a tolerance of 3km/h, even though our vehicle design rules allow a +/- 10% tolerance. So we're forced to watch our speedos...
Same here. The only ticket I ever got was for doing 68Km/h in a road where the limit is 60Km/h. I WAS watching my speedo because I knew about the camera, so no way in hell I was over the limit and I know of 3 other people who got tickets for the exact same speed.
Dirty detail: If we passed the camera at 67Km/h, we would be within tolerance... :roll: What a coincidence, don't you think?
 

Viper007Bond

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You can go over 3 or 4mph over the limit here, but that's only if the cops are being picky. We also don't have any speed photo radar, only red light ones. :)
 

No Boss

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jetsetter said:
Viper007Bond said:
You can go over 3 or 4mph over the limit here, but that's only if the cops are being picky. We also don't have any speed photo radar, only red light ones. :)
Nobody follows the speed limit out here, cops included.
Yeah, around here we're given a lot of leeway as well. On most interstates here you're allowed 6-7mph over the limit before the police go after you, if they are even shooting drivers with the radar gun. Most of the time troopers/police just sit in the cars and watch dvds.
 

Susurrate

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I have seen few cops on our intersates here in georgia. The speed limit is 60, and 85 is the normal speed of travel during non rush hour times in Atlanta.
 

transtek

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Did you read about the loophole in the laws for Specs? They can only do you if you stay in the SAME lane between the two points, so if once you've gone past one, you change lanes, there is nothing they can do about it!
 

andyhui01

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Re: Another road death (local police + speed cameras)

fbc said:
GraemeH said:
The driver is forced to concentrate on their speedometer exclusively. To what degree is irrelevant; attention is still diverted from the things that GENUINELY prevent accidents, namely giving attention to the road around you, your mirrors, other cars movements, their distances and speeds relative to your own etc.
Agree 100%. We have the same problem here - speed cameras in plague proportions, with a tolerance of 3km/h, even though our vehicle design rules allow a +/- 10% tolerance. So we're forced to watch our speedos...
I think Australia's tolerance is wayyyy too low, that it just comes down to giving you a ticket because you're speedo is inaccurate and not taking account that you have to overtake, in Hong Kong and malaysia, I know that we have a 10kph tolerance incase you sped up a little to overtake a slower car
 

YF19pilot

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Florida is particularly leniant. The law states 5 miles over is legal, most cops won't bust you for doing 10 over (the ones that do are typically anal city cops), and you can usually get away with 15 over on the Interstates, depending on traffic conditions, sometimes more, if that's what the flow of traffic is doing.
 

K`Tetch

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Susurrate said:
I have seen few cops on our intersates here in georgia. The speed limit is 60, and 85 is the normal speed of travel during non rush hour times in Atlanta.
and 35 during rush, especially ont he connector :) - just look at how many cars impact the bank staying on I85 comming south at the connector - I think its like 3-4 a DAY

I live a bit south of atlanta though, and cops often live a county or two from where they work. There's one Griffin cop I often see going to work in his intrepid cruiser, and he'll often be going through mine, and other counties at 85+ on regular (undivided) state highways. I am very tempted to rig a Vascar system up and film them doing it, and use it if I ever get caught for speeding.

Usually, I manage to talk my way out of tickets, except once - even talked my way out of doing 85 through a red light on a 70 road once upon a time. Only time I didn't, was when I was doing 110 past a static cop - he did me for 98 though, which is 3 points and a 40quid fine.

As for SPECs, I used to have the front numberplate on my car mounted under the front bumper, and angled a little towards the road - the cops and anyone else can see it fine, but SPECS can't read it, and its a perfectly legal mounting place (at least, for my car it was) - I tested it numerous times with the SPECS system on the M62 around warrington. The other method is to be alongside another vehicle and use that to screen you. Oh, and SPECs thresholds are set higher than you think - the 62 one used to be set around 80, I believe.
 

GraemeH

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Clarkson would have a field day with this;

Ayrshire Central MP Brian Donohoe said he had been campaigning to get junctions on the road converted into ones with bridges for safety reasons.

He said work should have started by now but it had been delayed by a wildlife survey.

The Labour MP, who is also a British Transport Police special constable, said he was "very angry".

He said: "Having written to the minister, I believe that he believes the environmental audit on badgers and bats is more important than human beings.
 

K`Tetch

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YF19pilot said:
Florida is particularly leniant. The law states 5 miles over is legal, most cops won't bust you for doing 10 over (the ones that do are typically anal city cops), and you can usually get away with 15 over on the Interstates, depending on traffic conditions, sometimes more, if that's what the flow of traffic is doing.
There is a trick, which works with cops, but not with cameras. Its the 'ferret' or 'blocker'(as it was termed in the smokey and the bandit films) method. Basically, find someone else going faster than you close to you. Stay slower than them whilst you're within say 1/8 mile of them, when they're that far ahead, switch to a new fastest car. In short, make sure you're never the fastest car around, and someone's obviously faster, and therefore a better target. That was what burt reynolds was doing in the trigger - drawing the cops onto him, so the semi could do the steady 90+ to make the deadline.
 

Jay

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On the Chicago Interstates, you go as fast as everyone else. Period. That means if everyone is 90 mph, so should you. People have been pulled over for going the speed limit, or not keeping with the pace of traffic.

Glad we have yet to see speed cameras. Only one that comes close takes a picture of people who run red lights. Now that makes sense. Having to be terrified that you may go 1 mph over the limit does not.
 

Jay

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GraemeH said:
Clarkson would have a field day with this;

Ayrshire Central MP Brian Donohoe said he had been campaigning to get junctions on the road converted into ones with bridges for safety reasons.

He said work should have started by now but it had been delayed by a wildlife survey.

The Labour MP, who is also a British Transport Police special constable, said he was "very angry".

He said: "Having written to the minister, I believe that he believes the environmental audit on badgers and bats is more important than human beings.
To an idiot enviromentalist, yes, they are more important. And these idiots seems to have the loudest, whinest voice.
 

chaos386

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jetsetter said:
Viper007Bond said:
You can go over 3 or 4mph over the limit here, but that's only if the cops are being picky. We also don't have any speed photo radar, only red light ones. :)
Nobody follows the speed limit out here, cops included.
Speed limits? So that's what those numbers on the side of the road mean! :p



But seriously, the cops here are very lenient on speeding (and most other moving violations, come to think of it...). As long as you're not doing freeway speeds on city streets, or something equally crazy, you're probably not going to be pulled over. Also, on the freeways, the police only really go after people who go over 160 km/hr (the limit is 120 km/hr).
 

The_Clincher

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in canada, or ontario at least, nobody follows the speed limits and the cops dont care for most of the time. the only time people get ticketed is when a cop camps in a certain area and pegs anyone 5+ over the speedlimit because they have to reach their ticket quota for certain amt of time
 

AutoMX

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K`Tetch said:
There is a trick, which works with cops, but not with cameras. Its the 'ferret' or 'blocker'(as it was termed in the smokey and the bandit films) method. Basically, find someone else going faster than you close to you. Stay slower than them whilst you're within say 1/8 mile of them, when they're that far ahead, switch to a new fastest car. In short, make sure you're never the fastest car around, and someone's obviously faster, and therefore a better target. That was what burt reynolds was doing in the trigger - drawing the cops onto him, so the semi could do the steady 90+ to make the deadline.
My way: follow a cop :D works every time. When no cops available, city buses are usually dangerously fast (and never get pulled over) so they're also a great battering ram. And besides, no cop will pull over someone behind a bus for speeding :lol:
Also, I use exotics like ferraris when available, quick and cop magnets.
 

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I must say that this is one thing I love about Korea... you can pretty much do what you want as lon as you apply some common sense. One of my friends got a speeding ticket on the expressway for doing 185 k's in an 80 k zone. The total cost of that ticket was $105 (US), and he was not be any means the fastest guy on the road at that point either!

In the city, the people basically know to wait a few extra seconds after a green light, unless it ispainfully obvious that no one is coming. I was always told that driving in korea was awful, but I think it is pretty damn good!
 

Militant-Grunt

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Cops in NYC have a tolerance of about 10mph over. Apperantly out in NJ and Penn its like 30++ because everyone does 85-95 haha.
 
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