Any other MANUAL purists out there? (parody of Posmo's thread)

Shawnw

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There has been a of good points made but lots of ego-inflating douchebaggery as well.

I'm going to go ahead and stick my neck for autos. Not necessarily in favour of autos but in their defence. I own an automatic, I have owned many automatics(and standards), and they've done their job well. My current car is a auto because it gets better mileage than the same car with a manual on the highway. My old lincolns were auto beacuse there was never a option for a standard tranny in them. And if there was it would have been idiotic.

Manuals are great, they're fun to drive, but for 98% of the people out there, 98% of the time it doesn't really matter what kind of transmission they have.
 

_HighVoltage_

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I used to be a manual gearbox purist. Being from Eastern Europe, all we drive is manual cars.

But then I bought my automatic Volvo (I wish I would've waited for a manual to pop up, but I can't turn back time) and ...it's not so bad actually. I don't mind the automatic gearbox.
 

LeVeL

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Driving auto just annoys me. It shifts at the wrong time...
 

Atlantian

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Nice DOGLEG 190e, don't see many of those.
Lol, I was considering a B5, but then my heart trampled my brain and I decided to get a classic over luxury.

There has been a of good points made but lots of ego-inflating douchebaggery as well.

I'm going to go ahead and stick my neck for autos. Not necessarily in favour of autos but in their defence. I own an automatic, I have owned many automatics(and standards), and they've done their job well. My current car is a auto because it gets better mileage than the same car with a manual on the highway. My old lincolns were auto beacuse there was never a option for a standard tranny in them. And if there was it would have been idiotic.

Manuals are great, they're fun to drive, but for 98% of the people out there, 98% of the time it doesn't really matter what kind of transmission they have.
Lol, you mean arguing with Bline_Io?

As you said, "it doesn't matter" to "98% of the people out there, 98% of the time", that means that they are willing to let it be, not prefer it.

Autos are merely "okay" and will be sufficient for driving, but it's like walking around with a crutch or walker no one really one really wants one unless they injured/are missing a limb or otherwise handicapped.
 
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tromoly

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My dogs, or anything that doesn't appreciate the slight jerking back and forth, also hate shifting and doing all the work. CVT, specifically, does have it's place in the automotive world.
I really despise CVTs in high-performance applications, on road cars I really don't have an opinion as I haven't had personal experience with them.

A manual would do nothing to make this car better at what it is - actually, it would detract from the car. Does that mean this car has no soul? Only a fool would think so. Also, I think that you would be hard pressed to find a car with more character than this Caddy.
My Rambler is an auto and it's an absolutely terrific cruising car with the windows down, I completely agree with your point, certain cars are just better with an automatic.
 

Atlantian

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CVT sucks at economy and sucks at performance. It's like Communism, sound great in our heads, but doesn't work in real life. It's just a cool thought that most of us have thought of when we were little kids.

I would totally love a stick shift cruiser.
 

Shawnw

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Lol, I was considering a B5, but then my heart trampled my brain and I decided to get a classic over luxury.



Lol, you mean arguing with Bline_Io?

As you said, "it doesn't matter" to "98% of the people out there, 98% of the time", that means that they are willing to let it be, not prefer it.

Autos are merely "okay" and will be sufficient for driving, but it's like walking around with a crutch or walker no one really one really wants one unless they injured/are missing a limb or otherwise handicapped.
Thank you for enlightening me, I guess my opinion was wrong. I will obey and believe everything you say because your 18 years on this earth and the ownership of a god-like dogleg!!! Mercedes must solidify your place as a leading authority on automobile information and advice.
 
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emiliorescigno

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I wouldn't call myself a completely inflexible manual purist, but I do have a genuine "fear" that one day the flappy-paddle crap will replace the manual as we know it today. It may be faster, but doesn't have a place REPLACING the manual, only as an alternative.

My biggest feeling though is that there's a place for each transmission, and that automatics are far too common. Autos make a lot of sense is big cruiser sort of cars, and vans and such, but driving a smaller car with an auto, (such as a Civic) is a completely defeating and numb experience. I can say for sure than in my daily driver ('96 Honda Accord), having a manual transmission makes it just that little bit more "fun" on those dreary mornings.

Paddle-shifters make good sense in racing and serious track applications, like a Porsche GT3, but not in something like a Golf GTI, the same way a TH350 Tranny makes sense in a 9 second drag car, but not a 13 second sports car.
 

2Billion

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CVT sucks at economy and sucks at performance. It's like Communism, sound great in our heads, but doesn't work in real life. It's just a cool thought that most of us have thought of when we were little kids.

I would totally love a stick shift cruiser.
CVT still needs development, but I prefer it to a traditional auto if it's a well done one - the Nissans I've driven are pretty decent, I certainly wasn't annoyed by a lack of responsiveness like I am in most autos.

I will say that it's very easy to do a bad CVT as well. The one in the Dodge Caliber made me think the transmission was broken.
 

argatoga

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I wouldn't call myself a completely inflexible manual purist, but I do have a genuine "fear" that one day the flappy-paddle crap will replace the manual as we know it today
It will replace stick shifts. You can't operate a duel clutch gearbox without a computer.

As long as the paddle let me shift when I want to I'm ok with it.
 

chris311

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Driving auto just annoys me. It shifts at the wrong time...
+1^ if you happen to be driving the wrong car.

There are automatics that shift when you want, and then there are automatics that don't shift, even if they have a manumatic and tell it what gear you want.



Good example is the 2005 Avalon. The first year it had a horrible 5 speed transmission. A lot of people had problems with the transmission not shifting down when you got on the gas. My mom has a 2005 Limited and every now and then when I drive it, I'll try and merge on the highway but the car won't accelerate as it tried to get on in 4th gear. It can be extremely dangerous trying to merge with 75mph traffic when you can't even go faster than 40. Even pushing the pedal all the way to the floor it won't shift. Because of that, Toyota replaced the transmission with a new 6 speed unit that they use in the Camry that works a lot better. It does not have the hesitation and "I'm going to tell you what gear you want" attitude that the old 5-speed had.


The last generation F150s had bad autos as well (1997-2004) My 2000 F150 would hang in a gear without shifting. It is the only automatic that I have driven that I could get to bounce off the rev limiter. I read that this was only present on the V6 trucks to keep the engine in the power band (which was really high) for towing. I'm glad now that newer trucks have tow sensors that change how the transmission shifts depending on load.


And then my 2009 Camry has a great auto. I hardley ever use the manumatic shifter as I can easily use the gas to kick down to the gear I want. I am able to easily get my transmission into the gear I want. I can get it to go from 6th, to 5th, to 4th, to 3rd one at a time, or I can get it to kick down from 6th to 3rd without any guesswork. I've driven automatics where you give in a little bit of gas to pass on the highway and it kicks the car down to 2nd gear, when I only wanted 3rd or 4th. (My F150 was like this as well)
 

killpanda

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I will say that it's very easy to do a bad CVT as well. The one in the Dodge Caliber made me think the transmission was broken.
So my bad opinion of CVT may be entirely based on the fact that the only one I drove was in a Caliber? Because at the end of the day it really felt like something was broken in this thing :-D
 

NooDle

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And that's is fine, but you guys do plan on moving up in the world, having kids, a better job and what not? Face facts: the manual transmission will be obsolete in twenty years; that is just the ugly truth of it. Do you really want to drive a 2030 Fiat Punto .1 litre because that is the last example of a car in the future with a manual?
Boo-urns. This is our fantasy world of FG, don't pollute it with real world facts and also, stop making so much sense, it saddens me!
 
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emiliorescigno

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Also - the good ole' manual is sticking a lot stronger here in the US versus Europe. You can get even smaller and less powerful cars with the paddles in Europe, and of course the super expensive super/hyper/superlative cars as well. Here in the US, those paddle shifts are only found on said expensive cars, and some German cars. But I doubt a flappy-paddle will be showing up anytime soon in the Corvette and the like.
 

Blind_Io

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As you said, "it doesn't matter" to "98% of the people out there, 98% of the time", that means that they are willing to let it be, not prefer it.

Autos are merely "okay" and will be sufficient for driving, but it's like walking around with a crutch or walker no one really one really wants one unless they injured/are missing a limb or otherwise handicapped.
CVT sucks at economy and sucks at performance. It's like Communism, sound great in our heads, but doesn't work in real life. It's just a cool thought that most of us have thought of when we were little kids.

I would totally love a stick shift cruiser.
Let me break it down for you into little words.

Your Opinion is not the same thing as Fact.

If you want to have a real conversation about this then I recommend that you start phrasing things that way. Instead of stating your opinion about something as if it is a fact, try saying, "I prefer a manual over an automatic because...." or "I don't like an automatic because..." Do you understand the difference? Right now you are making it really hard for many of us to agree with you because you don't seem to understand this subtle difference.

I have tried to draw your attention to this idea before, but you just don't seem to notice; so here I am like a teacher to a child spelling it out and spoon-feeding you this simple concept.

If you have an opinion phrase it as that using "I think..." or something similar.
If you have a fact to present you don't need to use "I think.." and my phrase it as a simple statement, however, be prepared to back up that statement.

Example:
"I think turbo diesels are the future of the automotive world."
An opinion. A fact would be:
"Diesels can get much better mileage than conventional gasoline engines and new technology makes them much cleaner than the diesels many drivers remember. New turbos can help offset the slow acceleration of NA diesel motors, making them well suited for daily driving."

Do you see the difference? Don't take this advice as an insult, I'm just trying to help you learn a more effective way of having a discussion - one that won't alienate the people you want to talk to.

This concludes Lesson One. Next time: Validating the thoughts and feelings of an opponent.

Trust me, you will get better results this way.
 

Atlantian

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^Okay, how do I validate the thoughts and feelings of my opponents?

Okay, I guess manual is going to disappear, but that is the worst news we heard since "Santa doesn't exist" and "the world is going to flood over".

Being a little bit more fuel efficient is the only (marginally) technical thing that is left in defense of manuals.

Btw, this morning, I just got smooth enough with my car that it feels like an automatic.

AND classes got canceled. :)

TGIF, it's a wonderful day.
 
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