Any other MANUAL purists out there? (parody of Posmo's thread)

Blind_Io

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Validating is easy once you get the hang of it. Put simply, it's letting the other person know that you understand where they are coming from. It's not the same as agreeing with them.

For example:
"I love manual transmissions, I think they give the driver better feel and control."

Response:
"Manuals certainly do give some drivers the feeling of being more in control of the car. Automatics also have their place for drivers who don't really want or need that sportiness in their vehicles."

Do you see what I did there? I let the speaker know that his ideas/feelings are valid. I also didn't use "but," which just negates everything that comes before it. Instead, I added new information to what was already spoken, thus building on the conversation.

Try it, I bet you will find you get better results.
 

argatoga

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No "but". :p

Blind, I believe only 12.6 angles can dance on the top of a needle. I understand for those who where raised by blasphemers and hell bound heretics that the simpleton, and highly illogical, belief that 12.7 angles could do so would provide comfort to their damned souls.
 

Atlantian

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Manuals certainly do give you more sportiness over comparable torque converter automatics, manuals also offer more reliability and ease of repair due to it's simple design.

Amidoingitrite?

Wait, so lemme get this straight, you define sportiness as control over the vehicle?

No "but". :p

Blind, I believe only 12.6 angles can dance on the top of a needle. I understand for those who where raised by blasphemers and hell bound heretics that the simpleton, and highly illogical, belief that 12.7 angles could do so would provide comfort to their damned souls.
Wait, what are you talking about?
 
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argatoga

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Manuals certainly do give you more sportiness over comparable torque converter automatics, manuals also offer more reliability and ease of repair due to it's simple design.
Drag racers will argue with you on that one.
 

thevictor390

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As one person on the forum said (I forget who), "If you can't control the gears on an automatic with the throttle then you have no business driving."
Late to the party, but I'm pretty sure this was gaasc, though I can't find the original.
 

Atlantian

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Drag racers will argue with you on that one.
Which point, that manuals are more sporty or that they are more reliable?

And I didn't see that post edit there, Blind. I just don't like the coupling and throttle mechanisms linked together.

I never liked compound designs. Like having all the light switches bundled up on a stalk or having an MP3 player that is a beard trimmer and a cellphone. :p
 
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prizrak

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^I thought it was Spectre, no?

I will have to add to the "Manuals are going away camp" with. Transmissions are going away completely. The ICE has reached its peak efficiency, there are a few tricks left that can let the internal combustion hang out for a little while longer, however it appears that the world is moving in the direction of an electric vehicle, be it a battery operated kind or the kind that makes its own power through other means (solar, hydrogen, etc....). Electric cars not only don't need transmissions but are actually hurt by presence of gears as parasitic loss is greater for electric vehicles. This is why we see so many concepts with motors placed directly into the wheels or very close to the driving axles.
Blind, I believe only 12.6 angles can dance on the top of a needle. I understand for those who where raised by blasphemers and hell bound heretics that the simpleton, and highly illogical, belief that 12.7 angles could do so would provide comfort to their damned souls.
How would you fit a geometric concept onto a pin? Maybe you meant angels? :p
Which point, that manuals are more sporty or that they are more reliable?
That can certainly be disputed. Most manuals will have to have their clutch changed somewhere around 80K, plenty of automatics can go into 150-200K range w/o anything other than regular fluid changes.*
*Of course alot depends on drivers of either ones.
 
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Atlantian

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Btw, I just read the OP to MadCat360 post's thread.

6. You can not drift in an Automatic.

Totally not true, I have been able to screwed around in an automatic W202.. that has NO hand brakes. (come to think of it, my friend may have totaled his C220 because I made his rear tires bald...)

And trying to hold the tires' grip at the limit going around corners is harder for me than hanging the tail out. So it is not "the ultimate form of car control".

Edit: Oh, and double clutch downshifts to overtake cars is fun.
 
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Spectre

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^I thought it was Spectre, no?
Nope. Not me.

6. You can not drift in an Automatic.

Totally not true, I have been able to screwed around in an automatic W202.. that has NO hand brakes. (come to think of it, my friend may have totaled his C220 because I made his rear tires bald...)
Agreed. I drift auto cars all the time. :D
 

waydee

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I can't say I see a point in automatic transmissions, I don't find driving a manual to be a hassle in traffic since it's all I've ever known really, 99.999% of cars I'll come across in this country have a manual transmission and everyone seems to get on fine regardless of how their cars are used.

I can see the value for handicapped people, truly incompetent drivers etc. but for the average one car person who uses their vehicle for pleasure, commuting and everything in between I think an automatic would be a poor choice.
 

thevictor390

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It's one less thing for the driver to think about, which from a mass commuting perspective, is a good thing.
 

argatoga

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Which point, that manuals are more sporty or that they are more reliable?
You can preload a torque converter. For sportiness autos win in a drag.

How would you fit a geometric concept onto a pin? Maybe you meant angels? :p
Wow, my grammar is off today. Though one could argue that angles are the angels of the geometric world. Yeah that's all I've got. :(
 

chvvkumar

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IMHO manuals are similar to assembly language programming. Sure, it is more efficient and gives you a sense of control (and I like both assembly language and manuals) but we came a long way technology wise and at this point I think computers do a better job than humans could ever do.
 

2Billion

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So my bad opinion of CVT may be entirely based on the fact that the only one I drove was in a Caliber? Because at the end of the day it really felt like something was broken in this thing :-D
Possibly. I actually asked the salesman what was up with the transmission, and he didn't quite catch on that I was concerned that I was driving a broken car. Worst transmission ever.

I was sold on Nissan's CVT by a particularly enthusiastic salesman who encouraged me to punch it and take corners at high speed. That was a fun test drive. Until he reclined the driver's seat on the highway.
 

Labcoatguy

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So my bad opinion of CVT may be entirely based on the fact that the only one I drove was in a Caliber? Because at the end of the day it really felt like something was broken in this thing :-D
Yeah, the Caliber is bad enough to convince people that cars are a bad idea.
 

thevictor390

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On paper, a CVT is the best performance option, since it can always keep the engine exact at the peak of its powerband. Never driven one so no idea how it actually works out.
 

argatoga

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The biggest problem with CVTs is they can't handle a lot of power. They are working on it, but still not there.
 

nist7

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I think it is unfair to paint everything as black and white....as if everything is either "manual" or "automatic." What about sequential manuals? They are "manual" but you cannot select the gear as you wish in a H pattern as you can only select the immediate gear before and afterwards. Or F1 like electrohydraulic semi autos used on F430s and the such. Do those deserve the same rap that econobox autos get?


Speaking of autos and racing: the 2 speed powerglide that is used in drag racing that can handle 3000HP is in a different galaxy than a granny's 4 speed auto in her honda civic.
 
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