Auto sales plunge in face of $4 gas

There is a stigma about sedans? Well I *might* give you the wagon but sedans?
 
gtrietsc said:
I forgot to mention another thing I like about my truck - high visibility. I can usually see through the car or truck in front of me, which gives me an advantage in avoiding collisions, abrupt lane changes, or objects in the roadway. In my GTO this was quite the opposite.
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But the only reason such a high driving position is a deal-breaker for people is because of all the SUVs and minivans on the road.
 
Not as bad on sedans. But not everyone here can afford a nice sedan, there is some crap put there you know.

(Full disclosure, our other car is a sedan.)
 
F-150 $17.700
Corolla $15.250
Camry $18.920

Doesn't seem like the sedans are all that overpriced :p
 
The American idiots who want Detroit to fail lack the mental acument to comprehend that the auto industry is interconnected with so many other industries that a collapse there will cripple the US economy further than it already is. But then again, why say facts to dogmatic zealots frenzied at attacking those not responsible for the problem just so you can feel smug and self-righteous. How very Republican of you.
 
torrent_rider said:
The American idiots who want Detroit to fail lack the mental acument to comprehend that the auto industry is interconnected with so many other industries that a collapse there will cripple the US economy further than it already is. But then again, why say facts to dogmatic zealots frenzied at attacking those not responsible for the problem just so you can feel smug and self-righteous. How very Republican of you.
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Astounding leaping to conclusions there. I don't remember reading one post that said anyone wanted the American car industry to fail. Far from it, I love many American cars and a collapse of the American auto industry is the last thing I'd want to see. However, the collapse of the bloodsucking UAW is a day I await with eager anticipation.

You've completely missed the point and resorted to baseless insults instead, and the neg rep I gave you reflects that. Enjoy your shiny new red blob.
 
torrent_rider said:
The American idiots who want Detroit to fail lack the mental acument to comprehend that the auto industry is interconnected with so many other industries that a collapse there will cripple the US economy further than it already is. But then again, why say facts to dogmatic zealots frenzied at attacking those not responsible for the problem just so you can feel smug and self-righteous. How very Republican of you.
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STILL waiting for your explanation of Corvette assembly screwups as being the fault of management... And here you post the typical Democrat/unionist twaddle.

FYI, I'm ex-union, a former Teamster, and NOT a Republican.
 
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prizrak said:
F-150 $17.700
Corolla $15.250
Camry $18.920

Doesn't seem like the sedans are all that overpriced :p
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Oh come on, at least quote some sedans that aren't completely boring like the Corolla or Camry. Throw a Honda in there, or a Nissan.

Also for the record I dont consider the Corolla a "sedan". Its more of a compact car. I have ridden in the back seat.
 
Spectre said:
STILL waiting for your explanation of Corvette assembly screwups as being the fault of management... And here you post the typical Democrat/unionist twaddle.

FYI, I'm ex-union, a former Teamster, and NOT a Republican.
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Since he won't field a try, let me...

/dons Devil's Advocate hat

One could argue that if shoddy work is being turned out, no matter what industry, ultimately the fault lies in the management of that workforce. I know it works that way in my field.

I do though recognize that American automakers have for decades been mortgaging their future to the UAW. The have given in to demands they never should have - it was fine until the early 70s, when they actually started to have competition. By the 80's, the disaster was becoming very obvious. Yet I think the desire to give in to demands, to get the factories churning again, with too little regard for what you are doing to the next guy who has to barter with the union is going to deal with, is why they are at where they are at.
 
I always thought trucks were like the new age muscle cars. Front engine, rear drive, solid axles, lots of V8's, some supercharged, and a couple even came with V10's. And they're cheap.

And now it looks like another gas crisis will be the end of them.
 
The local dealer is advertising a base F-150 for $10,988 - and it's not a fleet model.

That should be taken into account.

gtrietsc: Thanks for giving him an out. However, I do not accept that, as there is nothing management CAN do at this point to fix it within the confines of the union. So we'll still have to wait for his explanation. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.
 
gtrietsc said:
Oh come on, at least quote some sedans that aren't completely boring like the Corolla or Camry. Throw a Honda in there, or a Nissan.

Also for the record I dont consider the Corolla a "sedan". Its more of a compact car. I have ridden in the back seat.
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I was talking more on the practical side of things than fun in this case and was too lazy to look up Honda and Nissan :) You do have a point about Corolla they aren't all that big. I'm only trying to illustrate that the price difference between a truck and a decent sedan is pretty small and with gas where it is will be negated quickly :)

I do agree with you that there are reason for having a truck/SUV and alot of them are practical but in many cases its just a waste of resources.
The local dealer is advertising a base F-150 for $10,988 - and it's not a fleet model.
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Dude that is a hell of a discount....
 
prizrak said:
There is a stigma about sedans? Well I *might* give you the wagon but sedans?
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Note his location: Lewisville TX. trust me, in Chicago, if anything, there's a stigma attached to owning a truck.
 
Hiro11 said:
Note his location: Lewisville TX. trust me, in Chicago, if anything, there's a stigma attached to owning a truck.
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Yep - you will see more trucks and SUVs in the South. That's partly because you dont have to buy a parking space here.
 
Spectre said:
The local dealer is advertising a base F-150 for $10,988 - and it's not a fleet model.

That should be taken into account.

gtrietsc: Thanks for giving him an out. However, I do not accept that, as there is nothing management CAN do at this point to fix it within the confines of the union. So we'll still have to wait for his explanation. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.
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For $10,988, and I haven't seen the ad, but I can probably tell you how its equipped:

Regular cab, 4.2L V6, cloth bench seat, vinyl floors, manual windows, not even sure if a single disc CD player is standard but it might be.

Basically, four wheels, a motor, and a seat. But if you just need a pickup, not a bad deal. Thats less than what you would probably pay for a Ranger. The reason it is so low is that Ford is doing D-Plan (dealer employee pricing) PLUS a rebate on certain models. Sales are off THAT much. We bought ours last year and got a good deal, now the deal is even that much better.

I would say that if your commute is short, and you want a pickup, now is a great time to get one for dirt freakin cheap.
 
Do they even offer 4 cylinder trucks anymore?

I mean i wouldnt mind having a truck, but the problem is now they all carry giant engines, i would like a one row, bench seat small truck with a Sub-3L I4, and a 4 speed gearbox. Is that so much to ask?

Even the ford ranger is gigantic these days.
 
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The Ranger is available in a four cylinder, though most of them are the 3.0 or 4.0 V6.
 
Spectre said:
STILL waiting for your explanation of Corvette assembly screwups as being the fault of management...
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I'm not about to defend the UAW against their obvious screwups. My point is and remains that MANAGEMENT screwed up the Big Three far more than the line workers and it is idiotic to blame to line workers for Detroit's woes. Responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of executives at all levels.

And here you post the typical Democrat/unionist twaddle.

FYI, I'm ex-union, a former Teamster, and NOT a Republican.
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Childish comeback that has all the teeth of an infant. Republicans do blame workers while giving incompeent and corrupt CEOs a free pass and even if you are not one as you claim not to be, you're imitation of one cannot be more exact. My observation of you and those who blame the workers for Detroit remains spot on.

Afterall, GM still holds the #1 spot with the same workers it had, but the management has changed and so has their thinking. They figured out that changes at the top were what mattered so why can't you?
 
torrent_rider said:
I'm not about to defend the UAW against their obvious screwups. My point is and remains that MANAGEMENT screwed up the Big Three far more than the line workers and it is idiotic to blame to line workers for Detroit's woes. Responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of executives at all levels.
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Really.

So, now you change your tune. Remember this?

UAW members did not decide to mass produce inferior quality SUVs.
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Or this?

torrent_rider said:
argatoga said:
Both are to blame. The UAW workers didn't bolt the cars together properly and as a result a lot of them fell apart and fail.
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Well made engines that were DESIGNED to only get 10 miles per gallon are to blame.
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I asked this before, and like all questions I've put to you, you have deflected, evaded, or just refused to answer. What the hell does the fact that the cars fall apart due to shitty assembly have to do with "engines that were designed to get only 10mpg"???

Childish comeback that has all the teeth of an infant. Republicans do blame workers while giving incompeent and corrupt CEOs a free pass and even if you are not one as you claim not to be, you're imitation of one cannot be more exact. My observation of you and those who blame the workers for Detroit remains spot on.
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Interesting that you're automatically assuming that management and CEOs are corrupt and incompetent.

Who said I wasn't holding management responsible? I can and have ridiculed them elsewhere - but right now, the UAW IS the problem.

Case in point, the Ford Mondeo. Ford brought over one of the best selling cars in Europe, with a great reputation for reliability and durability, had it made by the UAW, and they all fell apart. Nobody wanted to buy them after their crappy build quality became apparent - one owner that I know had THE ENTIRE DASHBOARD COME OFF IN HIS HANDS when he pulled on the glovebox.

Or how about the Focus? Same story.

Management made the right decisions in bringing us these two products, I think we'd all have to agree on that. So, if management did the right thing in bringing the designs over and marketing them properly, which they did, who is to blame for the crappy quality of the cars? Especially when it's an identical design to a European Ford Mondeo.

It's the same thing with my preferred marque, Jaguar. Ford gave the British Jaguar union (I refuse to use their idiot name) a Mondeo to build, and it's turned out to be a total disaster. *They* can't build one either.

But the Belgians in Genk can.

Afterall, GM still holds the #1 spot with the same workers it had, but the management has changed and so has their thinking. They figured out that changes at the top were what mattered so why can't you?
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GM actually LOST the #1 spot earlier this year... to Toyota. They got it back, but it looks like this year will be the last year for that. By the end of the year, "the big three" will probably consist of Toyota, GM, and Honda. GM's marketshare continues to decline despite "exciting" new product.

People are staying away from GM in droves; the only reason they were still #1 was because of their truck and SUV sales, and that reason just went away with high gas prices.
 
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