Auto sales plunge in face of $4 gas

thedguy

rides with Rebecca Black.. in the back
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Hmm it seems I forgot to put in "options" as by the year 2003 there was only the vette and mustang for RWD American cars with v8 engines. The Crown vic really isn't a viable option, made obvious by the fact that 8 people bought them in the decades they've been on the market.
 

TC

aka TomCat
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The Impala SS and Grand Prix GTP has a 5.3L Vortec V8.
I never heard anyone call it a Vortec before. But that engine is the LS4.

I don't really know if GM's gasoline truck motors are all Vortecs, but you get the idea.
 

Spectre

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The FIAT deal, while disastrous, has nothing to do with car quality.

If you are wondering why no one here is liking you it is because all you have done thus far is call everyone else names, refuse to acknowledge or respond to points brought up by others, and keep throwing in these straw man arguments. Act like an adult.
The funny part about his claims is that it is entirely possible to prove that right now it's the UAW and not management that's the biggest problem.

Toyota has ONE US plant that's UAW - the NUMMI plant in Fremont, CA. It's union because Toyota inherited it from GM when GM decided they couldn't make a go of it. Toyota took over, and told the unions to toe the line or they'd close the plant in a heartbeat.

Guess which Toyota USA plant has the most numbers of defects, the lowest productivity and profitability. Guess which Toyota USA plant is the hardest to retool for new cars. Guess which Toyota USA plant has the highest wage costs. And finally, guess which plant has a competing plant less than 500 miles away that's also managed by Toyota North America out of Torrance CA, that's NOT union, that has lower defect rates, has faster production rates, and is generally producing a superior product?
 

thedguy

rides with Rebecca Black.. in the back
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Stop making me look like an idiot! :p

Regardless, T-bird was limited production and not exactly cheap, the Lincoln wasn't cheap. Though I hear it was one of the better Jags you can buy :dunno:

I never heard anyone call it a Vortec before. But that engine is the LS4.

I don't really know if GM's gasoline truck motors are all Vortecs, but you get the idea.
The GP/Monte SS don't have Vortec motors, those had cast iron blocks and have a lot in common with the rest of the line up. The LS4 is slightly shorter than the rest of the LS/GenIII/IV v8's.
 
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argatoga

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Stop making me look like an idiot! :p

Regardless, T-bird was limited production and not exactly cheap, the Lincoln wasn't cheap. Though I hear it was one of the better Jags you can buy :dunno:
You didn't mention price :p. Sadly though the LS was not well known and it looks like Lincoln is moving in the wrong direction with their current FWD cars.

I'm not sure how well the LS compared to its sister Jaguar (S-Type) but I am sure Spectre will enlighten us on that.
 

thedguy

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You didn't mention price :p. Sadly though the LS was not well known and it looks like Lincoln is moving in the wrong direction with their current FWD cars.

I'm not sure how well the LS compared to its sister Jaguar (S-Type) but I am sure Spectre will enlighten us on that.
Well to follow in the foot steps of the old muscle car it would have to be cheap and not to hard to obtain.
 

Spectre

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The LS is an S-Type down .1L on displacement (yeah, marketing gag), different suspension settings/tuning, and with a different interior. Ford claimed that almost no parts were common between the two... mostly because the ones they supplied had different serial numbers stamped on the parts. In reality, something like 70% of the parts interchange.


It was also probably the best Lincoln they ever made. Lincoln didn't know what to do with it, so when they did the facelift/update (think it was in 01) they softened up the suspension and tried to make it emulate the Town Car more. Idiots.

Per most of the motoring press, the DEW98 chassis that both cars were based on was too down market for the S-Type... and too upmarket for the LS. Having driven both, I'd have to agree - it was astonishing how good it was for an "American car."

I'd recommend the first-gen LS over the S-Type any day.

Bottom line, the LS was better at what it was supposed to be than the S-Type was at its niche. And, sad to say, the LS was put together better in addition to being a better value.

The Thunderbird was also on DEW98, but that was a Michelle Cervantes disaster - she dropped the plot and made it a total retro car, right down to the 50's handling.
 

argatoga

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Well to follow in the foot steps of the old muscle car it would have to be cheap and not to hard to obtain.
The Mustang still fits the catagory, and even though I know you don't like it, so does the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis.

Spectre said:
It was also probably the best Lincoln since 1967 they ever made.
Fixed. :p
 
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Spectre

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Heh.

Sorry, but from a "driver's car" viewpoint, the LS *is* the best Lincoln ever.
 

Quiky

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The Impala SS and Grand Prix GTP has a 5.3L Vortec V8.
Grand Prix SE: 3.1L V6
Grand Prix GT: 3.8L V6
Grand Prix GTP: 3.8L V6 (Supercharged)
Grand Prix GXP: 5.3L LS4 V8

All front wheel drive since 5th gen's rolled out in 1988.
 

cvrefugee

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Not with the bad lighting system and nasty air suspension, no.
The air suspension sucks balls after 11 years, I'll give you that. And the HID system went out once...we somehow convinced the dealership to replace it under warranty. The neon tail lights are awesome...as long as they work (never had a problem with ours). Back in '97 that car was hot though, not many cars had HIDs and the motor was/is phenomenal. Too bad ours is falling apart, the build quality was horrible for a luxury car.
 

Spectre

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The air suspension sucked rocks when new, too - too much the bouncy floaty boat. The neon taillights were cool but often died quckly, and the original HIDs were one-offs and were recalled because they sucked.
 

torrent_rider

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The FIAT deal, while disastrous, has nothing to do with car quality.
BINGO! You're catching on that the UAW is not THE reason for the falling fortunes of the Big 3. The buck stops at management.

If you are wondering why no one here is liking you it is because all you have done thus far is call everyone else names, refuse to acknowledge or respond to points brought up by others, and keep throwing in these straw man arguments.
For your information, I was not wondering nor do I care about teenagers not liking me. I've been out of high school for many years now. I care about getting FACTS straight. Your inability to accept reality is not my pet project in life to rectify.
 

Spectre

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Guess you haven't been paying attention, like most UAW drones, but nobody that's responded to you (that I can see) is a teenager and many are over 25.

Also, way to go on ignoring our points about the UAW causing bad quality. GM's investment in Fiat did not cause overpaid UAW workers to improperly assemble merp's Corvette, Cobra or my Jeep.
 

argatoga

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BINGO! You're catching on that the UAW is not THE reason for the falling fortunes of the Big 3. The buck stops at management.
I never said the Big Threes' failings were exclusively due to the UAW, they have both fucked up. The thing is management has improved much more than the UAW recently.

For your information, I was not wondering nor do I care about teenagers not liking me. I've been out of high school for many years now. I care about getting FACTS straight. Your inability to accept reality is not my pet project in life to rectify.
Your inability to argue makes me wonder if you ever graduated high school. You have yet to address any of the points brought up concerning the UAW failings, all you have done is use straw men arguments and personnel insults.
 

BerserkerCatSplat

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Your inability to argue makes me wonder if you ever graduated high school. You have yet to address any of the points brought up concerning the UAW failings, all you have done is use straw men arguments and personnel insults.
He probably dropped out after the eighth grade and now empties garbage cans at a UAW plant. Hence how he knows that if the UAW gets shut down, nobody else will hire him.

Just a guess...
 
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