BerserkerCatSplat
Hormone Induced
Auto, 46RH. Since I can't turn the crank, I can't undo the torque converter bolts to see if the engine turns over when detached from the tranny, either. Frustrating!
Ownership Verified: BCS repeatedly breaks, fixes, and re-breaks his Jeep
- Thread starter BerserkerCatSplat
- Start date
airmenair
Well-Known Member
Well you could pull the transmission and see if the engine will turn over with it off the car. I was helping a friend put an engine in a 68 Cougar. We put it and bolted it to the transmission only to discover we couldn't turn it over any more. We found out that the flywheel/flexplate he bought was not compatible with the stock torque converter. When we bolted it to the bellhousing we squeezed the torque converter up against the input shaft which caused it to "lock up".
Now obviously you weren't doing that kind of work before this happened but it shows that problems with the transmission and torque converter can "lock" an motor. Before pulling it entirely you might try loosening all the bellhousing bolts and see if you can turn it over.
Now obviously you weren't doing that kind of work before this happened but it shows that problems with the transmission and torque converter can "lock" an motor. Before pulling it entirely you might try loosening all the bellhousing bolts and see if you can turn it over.
airmenair
Well-Known Member
Find anything out?
BerserkerCatSplat
Hormone Induced
Yeah, I sure did! It's kind of a (tragically) funny story.
So, on the weekend we moved the Jeep into my dad's shop so I could pull the engine/trans out and really tear things down.
First, we had to pull out my dad's project car so we could move it to our storage garage while I worked on mine.
Went to my place, loaded up the Jeep onto the hauler for the trip to the shop. Ironically, despite all the wheeling it's done, this was the first time it's needed to be winched. :lol:
Back at the shop, we managed to push the ZJ up and over the curb by hand, but the sustained slope was too much for the two of us. Thus, we grabbed my mother's Rubicon, threw it in 4LO and idle-pushed it up the driveway.
In the garage, finally. Pulled the hood for engine access.
This is how far I'd stripped it down in my parking lot, but bad weather all week had kept me from going any further.
Personally, I wanted to just do an engine swap, but I determined that the header's wouldn't fit. Oh, well!
Many linkages were unbolted and wires unplugged, and the engine is almost ready to be yanked.
Pulled the transfer case for ease of removal, now it's ready to be pulled.
Out, finally!
Required.
Got the motor on the engine stand, started removing all the bits and pieces. Everything looked normal, until....
....I pulled the passenger-side head. Gee, that piston looks pretty cracked. Wait, what is that?
GODDAMNIT WHY THE FUCK IS THERE A TORX BIT IN MY COMBUSTION CHAMBER. YOU SON OF A BITCH.
So, at this point it became suddenly apparent what had happened, but there's more to the story. Way back last year when I first bought the Jeep, the very first thing I ever did with it was clean the IAC valve on the back of the throttle body as the idle was a bit odd. The ISC is in a very awkward position with little clearance, so I was forced to use a removable screwdriver bit in a ratchet to get at the two Torx bolts holding it to the back of the TB. While I was reassembling it, I dropped the bit down the back of the engine. I searched for that fucking thing for HOURS. Magnets, flashlight, I couldn't find it for the life of me. Every time I went under the hood to work on something, I looked for that damned bit. eventually I was forced to assume it had fallen out of the engine bay while I was driving.
Flash forward to a few weeks ago. After lots of driving and many bumpy offroading trips, the Torx bit must have somehow migrated forward to the front passenger side injector pair and was in a position near the injector hole for that cylinder. Keep in mind that the ECU wiring, fuel rail, and a vacuum line cluster all run down that area. As soon as I pulled the rail with injectors attached, the bit must have been in the perfect position and jumped in the hole. Here's a picture showing in red where the Torx bolt I was working on was when I lost it, and in green the hole it went in over a year later.
Also note that the hole has a raised lip around it to help protect against exactly this kind of thing. I afterward attempted to find a position it could have rested in on the intake manifold to drop in, and after a number of trials I was completely unable to make the bit fall in the hole. It barely fits in end-on. The chances of the series of events conspiring to have this happen was infinitesimally small... and yet there's a damn Torx bit in my piston. :lol:
So, yeah, that's the story more or less. In a small stroke of luck the cylinder wall looks to actually be in quite good shape, so a rebore may not even be necessary. The head was not so lucky, as the bit took a small chunk out of a non-sealing surface; not critical, but I'll likely just grab a junkyard head for $40 and rebuild it along with the other one. The transmission also seems to have degraded badly in the months since I swapped transfer cases, as it gushed some pretty badly burnt ATF when I pulled the TC, indicating that it's blown an internal seal and something was badly overheating itself. The culprit may have been a clogged checkvalve by the trans cooler, which would have kept the ATF from circulating and cooling properly. Thus, I will be having the trans rebuilt and likely upgraded to 49RH spec.
Bonus image: The piston needed to be bashed out with a hammer to unseize thing so I can pull the rest of the internals on Sunday. Hulk smash!
So, on the weekend we moved the Jeep into my dad's shop so I could pull the engine/trans out and really tear things down.
First, we had to pull out my dad's project car so we could move it to our storage garage while I worked on mine.
Went to my place, loaded up the Jeep onto the hauler for the trip to the shop. Ironically, despite all the wheeling it's done, this was the first time it's needed to be winched. :lol:
Back at the shop, we managed to push the ZJ up and over the curb by hand, but the sustained slope was too much for the two of us. Thus, we grabbed my mother's Rubicon, threw it in 4LO and idle-pushed it up the driveway.
In the garage, finally. Pulled the hood for engine access.
This is how far I'd stripped it down in my parking lot, but bad weather all week had kept me from going any further.
Personally, I wanted to just do an engine swap, but I determined that the header's wouldn't fit. Oh, well!
Many linkages were unbolted and wires unplugged, and the engine is almost ready to be yanked.
Pulled the transfer case for ease of removal, now it's ready to be pulled.
Out, finally!
Required.
Got the motor on the engine stand, started removing all the bits and pieces. Everything looked normal, until....
....I pulled the passenger-side head. Gee, that piston looks pretty cracked. Wait, what is that?
GODDAMNIT WHY THE FUCK IS THERE A TORX BIT IN MY COMBUSTION CHAMBER. YOU SON OF A BITCH.
So, at this point it became suddenly apparent what had happened, but there's more to the story. Way back last year when I first bought the Jeep, the very first thing I ever did with it was clean the IAC valve on the back of the throttle body as the idle was a bit odd. The ISC is in a very awkward position with little clearance, so I was forced to use a removable screwdriver bit in a ratchet to get at the two Torx bolts holding it to the back of the TB. While I was reassembling it, I dropped the bit down the back of the engine. I searched for that fucking thing for HOURS. Magnets, flashlight, I couldn't find it for the life of me. Every time I went under the hood to work on something, I looked for that damned bit. eventually I was forced to assume it had fallen out of the engine bay while I was driving.
Flash forward to a few weeks ago. After lots of driving and many bumpy offroading trips, the Torx bit must have somehow migrated forward to the front passenger side injector pair and was in a position near the injector hole for that cylinder. Keep in mind that the ECU wiring, fuel rail, and a vacuum line cluster all run down that area. As soon as I pulled the rail with injectors attached, the bit must have been in the perfect position and jumped in the hole. Here's a picture showing in red where the Torx bolt I was working on was when I lost it, and in green the hole it went in over a year later.
Also note that the hole has a raised lip around it to help protect against exactly this kind of thing. I afterward attempted to find a position it could have rested in on the intake manifold to drop in, and after a number of trials I was completely unable to make the bit fall in the hole. It barely fits in end-on. The chances of the series of events conspiring to have this happen was infinitesimally small... and yet there's a damn Torx bit in my piston. :lol:
So, yeah, that's the story more or less. In a small stroke of luck the cylinder wall looks to actually be in quite good shape, so a rebore may not even be necessary. The head was not so lucky, as the bit took a small chunk out of a non-sealing surface; not critical, but I'll likely just grab a junkyard head for $40 and rebuild it along with the other one. The transmission also seems to have degraded badly in the months since I swapped transfer cases, as it gushed some pretty badly burnt ATF when I pulled the TC, indicating that it's blown an internal seal and something was badly overheating itself. The culprit may have been a clogged checkvalve by the trans cooler, which would have kept the ATF from circulating and cooling properly. Thus, I will be having the trans rebuilt and likely upgraded to 49RH spec.
Bonus image: The piston needed to be bashed out with a hammer to unseize thing so I can pull the rest of the internals on Sunday. Hulk smash!
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BerserkerCatSplat
Hormone Induced
Sadly not much room for headers in there, I think there's only one company that makes shorty headers that fit and they're $$$.
I recently removed the intake of my now ex-car to clean it and lost a small spacer. Of course I spent 2 hours looking for the damn things for fear of doing something similar. :lol:
Damn, that's unfortunate, but still kinda funny.
Similar thing happened to me when I was wiring in my radar detector, the tiniest part in the world launched itself to somewhere in my interior, never to be seen again.
I look forward to seeing it up and running and back on the trails again soon!
Spectre
The Deported
- Joined
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- 36,832
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- Dallas, Texas
- Car(s)
- 00 4Runner | 02 919 | 87 XJ6 | 86 CB700SC
After having once done something similar to a motorcycle engine, such bits are banned from being used around engines in any shop I have any control over. In fact, there aren't any in my Volcano at all - the ones I have are either self contained with a handle or switchblade mechanism or permanently mounted into a 1/4 or 3/8 socket and therefore difficult to lose.
In my case it was a Philips bit. That really sucks, I know the feeling. And I did a lot more damage to my engine before it jammed up the same way.
Good that you found it and that the block's reusable. Going to take the opportunity to balance, blueprint and gasket-match at the least while you're in there?
In my case it was a Philips bit. That really sucks, I know the feeling. And I did a lot more damage to my engine before it jammed up the same way.
Good that you found it and that the block's reusable. Going to take the opportunity to balance, blueprint and gasket-match at the least while you're in there?
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BerserkerCatSplat
Hormone Induced
^ I fucking love you guys. :lol:
Yeah, shortly after losing the bit I picked up a full set of the permanently-attached socket ones - too little too late, apparently. :lol: If I decide to reuse the block it will absolutely be B&B'd, that was 100% the plan until I came across a guy on Craigslist selling a complete (minus intake manifold, which I already have) 5.9L Magnum engine that's already been stripped down and hot-tanked, for $150. If that engine checks out, I'll be building that one up instead of the 5.2 as my stock computer has enough headroom in the fuel map to run the 5.9 with ease. The only other parts needed are:
5.9 flexplate
5.9 harmonic balancer (comes with engine)
5.9 driver's side motor mount (comes with engine)
torque converter from 96-98 V8 (Can modify the flexplate to fit my current TC)
Definitely not as difficult an upgrade as I'd imagined. The 5.9 comes from a Dodge truck and thus has the truck cam, so I'll be installing the slightly hotter 5.2 cam in it (or the even hotter Jeep 5.9 cam if I can find one.)
Yeah, shortly after losing the bit I picked up a full set of the permanently-attached socket ones - too little too late, apparently. :lol: If I decide to reuse the block it will absolutely be B&B'd, that was 100% the plan until I came across a guy on Craigslist selling a complete (minus intake manifold, which I already have) 5.9L Magnum engine that's already been stripped down and hot-tanked, for $150. If that engine checks out, I'll be building that one up instead of the 5.2 as my stock computer has enough headroom in the fuel map to run the 5.9 with ease. The only other parts needed are:
5.9 flexplate
5.9 harmonic balancer (comes with engine)
5.9 driver's side motor mount (comes with engine)
torque converter from 96-98 V8 (Can modify the flexplate to fit my current TC)
Definitely not as difficult an upgrade as I'd imagined. The 5.9 comes from a Dodge truck and thus has the truck cam, so I'll be installing the slightly hotter 5.2 cam in it (or the even hotter Jeep 5.9 cam if I can find one.)
JipJopJones
Well-Known Member
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- North Shore
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I go away for a week and look what happens. God damn it man! That is a bad stroke of luck.
Good about the block being reusable though. BTW, I agree with Tomcat... Poweradders AHOY!
Good about the block being reusable though. BTW, I agree with Tomcat... Poweradders AHOY!
Crazyjeeper
NickGyver
Wow, it is amazing what a foreign particle can do in a engine.
airmenair
Well-Known Member
I read about this when you first posted but am now just deciding to post :lol:
Certainly sucks for sure but it's good you see the funny side of things. It seems if you're going to be into cars stuff like this will just happen and sometimes it's just better to laugh it off otherwise we'd go insane! :lol:
Goodluck with the build though it'll come out better than before!
Certainly sucks for sure but it's good you see the funny side of things. It seems if you're going to be into cars stuff like this will just happen and sometimes it's just better to laugh it off otherwise we'd go insane! :lol:
Goodluck with the build though it'll come out better than before!
SchumacherM
Well-Known Member
The obligatory:
https://pic.armedcats.net/s/sc/schumacherm/2010/10/04/37c59295.jpg
Joking aside, atleast the cause is obvious, although unfortunate. You won't have to spend the rest of time figuring out WTF happened and how to fix it. =)
https://pic.armedcats.net/s/sc/schumacherm/2010/10/04/37c59295.jpg
Joking aside, atleast the cause is obvious, although unfortunate. You won't have to spend the rest of time figuring out WTF happened and how to fix it. =)
