BMW debuts 560-hp twin-turbo M6, manual option under consideration

[TC]

I like engines with lots of cylinders, but the V10 in the M5/6 never really made sense to me. It wasn't a big thumping V10, instead it was a high revving V10 similar to something you might find in a F1 car. Which would be awesome in something small and lightweight, like a F1 car. Instead BMW stuck it in 2 of the heaviest vehicles they ever made. Sure the V10 made an extra 100+hp over the old V8 used in the E39 M5, but the amount of torque only went up by like 10 ft-lbs. As a result the old V8 M5 was technically faster to 60mph than the V10 M5.

So now BMW is going back to a V8, but slapping a couple turbos on to increase HP by 60, but also increasing torque by 120 ft-lbs over the old V10. That should be a damn good setup for a big heavy luxobarge.

 

[marcos_eirik]

I like engines with lots of cylinders, but the V10 in the M5/6 never really made sense to me. It wasn't a big thumping V10, instead it was a high revving V10 similar to something you might find in a F1 car. Which would be awesome in something small and lightweight, like a F1 car. Instead BMW stuck it in 2 of the heaviest vehicles they ever made. Sure the V10 made an extra 100+hp over the old V8 used in the E39 M5, but the amount of torque only went up by like 10 ft-lbs. As a result the old V8 M5 was technically faster to 60mph than the V10 M5.

So now BMW is going back to a V8, but slapping a couple turbos on to increase HP by 60, but also increasing torque by 120 ft-lbs over the old V10. That should be a damn good setup for a big heavy luxobarge.

Yes, similarly I wouldn't be too thrilled if Porsche chucked the Carrera GT's V10 into a Panamera or Cayenne; Would be a waste of an epic engine...

 

[Pry]

Sure the V10 made an extra 100+hp over the old V8 used in the E39 M5, but the amount of torque only went up by like 10 ft-lbs. As a result the old V8 M5 was technically faster to 60mph than the V10 M5.

Could have been the case if both of the cars had only one gear.

 

[Buktu]

I like engines with lots of cylinders, but the V10 in the M5/6 never really made sense to me. It wasn't a big thumping V10, instead it was a high revving V10 similar to something you might find in a F1 car. Which would be awesome in something small and lightweight, like a F1 car. Instead BMW stuck it in 2 of the heaviest vehicles they ever made. Sure the V10 made an extra 100+hp over the old V8 used in the E39 M5, but the amount of torque only went up by like 10 ft-lbs. As a result the old V8 M5 was technically faster to 60mph than the V10 M5.

So now BMW is going back to a V8, but slapping a couple turbos on to increase HP by 60, but also increasing torque by 120 ft-lbs over the old V10. That should be a damn good setup for a big heavy luxobarge.

Also, didn't the V10 have a habit of going to shit once it hit 100.000km?

I know the NA V10 is supposed to be a petrolheads wet dream, but the V8 makes more sense. You are buying a big BMW, whichever way you look at it.

 

[D-Fence]

I like engines with lots of cylinders, but the V10 in the M5/6 never really made sense to me. It wasn't a big thumping V10, instead it was a high revving V10 similar to something you might find in a F1 car. Which would be awesome in something small and lightweight, like a F1 car. Instead BMW stuck it in 2 of the heaviest vehicles they ever made. Sure the V10 made an extra 100+hp over the old V8 used in the E39 M5, but the amount of torque only went up by like 10 ft-lbs. As a result the old V8 M5 was technically faster to 60mph than the V10 M5.

So now BMW is going back to a V8, but slapping a couple turbos on to increase HP by 60, but also increasing torque by 120 ft-lbs over the old V10. That should be a damn good setup for a big heavy luxobarge.

E34: 5,9 s 400 Nm
E39: 5,3 s 500 Nm
E60: 4,7 s 520 Nm
F10: 4,4 s 680 Nm

Your point being?


Also, no, the V10 didn't explode at 100.000km. The SMG did at 150.000km. Look how many M5s with ~120.000km there are for sale

 

[Pry]

I know the NA V10 is supposed to be a petrolheads wet dream, but the V8 makes more sense. You are buying a big BMW, whichever way you look at it.

Kind of the point of being an M. This new twin turbo V8 could just as well be an ordinary BMW production engine. Sure it's powerful but so is the N74.

 

[Buktu]

E34: 5,9 s 400 Nm
E39: 5,3 s 500 Nm
E60: 4,7 s 520 Nm
F10: 4,4 s 680 Nm

Your point being?


Also, no, the V10 didn't explode at 100.000km. The SMG did at 150.000km. Look how many M5s with ~120.000km there are for sale

Ah alright, that's where I got it from then

 

[D-Fence]

Kind of the point of being an M. This new twin turbo V8 could just as well be an ordinary BMW production engine. Sure it's powerful but so is the N74.

M cars were always about what was technically possible. They have proven a point with the V10, now they go full attack with efficient performance. I don't see a problem there, that keeps the "supersedan" genre alive.

 

[TC]

E34: 5,9 s 400 Nm
E39: 5,3 s 500 Nm
E60: 4,7 s 520 Nm
F10: 4,4 s 680 Nm

Your point being?

I think your time for the E39 is a bit low, should be well into the 4 second range. I've read that a good driver can get it to 60mph faster than the E60. But you can see just how small a power improvement the V10 was compared to other generations, in terms of torque. I think the old engine would be beautiful in a resurrected mid-engine M1, but in a big heavy luxury barge it just doesn't fit the character of the car.

Kind of the point of being an M. This new twin turbo V8 could just as well be an ordinary BMW production engine. Sure it's powerful but so is the N74.

The point of an M is to have an engine that isn't an ordinary BMW production engine? Seems to me most M cars use ordinary, albeit finely caressed/reworked, production engines. The V10 seems to be the only real exception to that rule.

 

[HatePersonified]

The V10 is a magical engine that was killed off far too soon. Rev-happy motors with lots of cylinders are sadly going away, but they still had lots of development room that they could work with in that motor.

I just wish it either had a proper manual behind it or a traditional slushbox rather than the overly complex SMG they decided on using.

 

[Pry]

The point of an M is to have an engine that isn't an ordinary BMW production engine? Seems to me most M cars use ordinary, albeit finely caressed/reworked, production engines. The V10 seems to be the only real exception to that rule.

When you drive a car (an E46 M3) with an S54 and rev it up to 7900 rpm it doesn't feel like it has anything to do with an M52/M54 (328i/330i). The S64 (M5) is pretty much an M64 (550i) with twin-scroll turbos, better cooling and different software.
Also the M3's S65 was derived from the V10 and had almost nothing to do with ordinary BMW engines.

 

[TC]

When you drive a car (an E46 M3) with an S54 and rev it up to 7900 rpm it doesn't feel like it has anything to do with an M52/M54 (328i/330i). The S64 (M5) is pretty much an M64 (550i) with twin-scroll turbos, better cooling and different software.
Also the M3's S65 was derived from the V10 and had almost nothing to do with ordinary BMW engines.

Ahh, but aren't all these designs ultimately based off other designs? Sure BMW decided to completely redesign an engine for some new car, but there is always going to be connections to past designs. The important thing is that whatever they come up with is better than what came before. And in every logical way the new V8TT is better than the old V10, except when it comes to those silly little personal preferences some people have about small and ultimately meaningless details. It's all well and good if you want to drive an E60 and believe it's somehow superior to the new F10 because it has a more "special" engine, but you also have to recognize that your car is inferior in every measurable way to the new one.

For the record, I love all the M-cars and think the engines are fantastic, especially the new F10 since a torque monster motor is exactly what such a car needs imo.

 

[Pry]

Yes it's about personal preferences. I'd want my M car to be something special. I like how the old M engines scream like hell to get every last bit of power out of them.
The new turbo engines are IMO a bit dull compared to them. I don't like the feel of the turbo charged torque monsters as much as I like the rev happy naturally aspirated engines. Also when you floor a turbo charged car the wastegates closes and makes the exhaust even quieter than on partial throttle. That's not what I want to hear on full throttle. Also the intake noise... well there's none really maybe some quiet whiz from the turbos spooling but nothing like the mechanical scream from a high revving naturally aspirated engine.
I think M cars are a lot about what kind of feeling they give you and that's why I care.

 

[TC]

Yes it's about personal preferences. I'd want my M car to be something special. I like how the old M engines scream like hell to get every last bit of power out of them.
The new turbo engines are IMO a bit dull compared to them. I don't like the feel of the turbo charged torque monsters as much as I like the rev happy naturally aspirated engines. Also when you floor a turbo charged car the wastegates closes and makes the exhaust even quieter than on partial throttle. That's not what I want to hear on full throttle. Also the intake noise... well there's none really maybe some quiet whiz from the turbos spooling but nothing like the mechanical scream from a high revving naturally aspirated engine.
I think M cars are a lot about what kind of feeling they give you and that's why I care.

I can respect that. We all have our own preferences. I didn't buy the fastest car that I could have the last time I bought a new DD, so I understand. But I still stand by the fact that certain types of engines work best in certain types of vehicles. Putting a twin turbo rotary engine in a tractor, for example, would be kinda dumb. BMW builds a twin turbo 6L V12 for the 7-series and since it makes a ton of torque, I think it's perfect for that giant car and I wouldn't really want to see it in a lightweight supercar. The M5 is a big heavy super-saloon and I think the old V8 was a better match for it than the V10 that followed. Unfortunately I think the new forced induction motors were forced on BMW by emissions regulations, so I can't blame them for going down that road. Progress is progress, but we still have the old models for nostalgia's sake.