Breaking news! Saab is NOT dead (yet) and the new 9-5 gets the green light.

2Billion said:
Blame Obama all you want - though he wasn't the only one foolish enough to bail them out - but he wasn't there when Whitacre pulled the same stunt at AT&T. It is, of course, a case of patterns of behavior being ignored, and you're correct about that. However, he would have pulled that stunt no matter how he weaseled his way into the top spot. There was some professional level weaseling going on.
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Whitacre wasn't working for GM at the time so he wouldn't have been able to weasel his way to the top. In fact, he wasn't working for anyone at the time. He was Obama's hand picked choice for the position after he fired Rick Wagoner.

If Obama didn't know about Whitacre's past, that says something about the man. If Obama knew about it and went ahead anyway, that says something too. So, which is it?


As for the "unlimited government funds" you keep going on about, the government doesn't have unlimited funds for being a government, let alone an increasingly unpopular bailout plan. Obama is going to try to wash his hands of this as soon as possible because it's proved unpopular, and there will be attempts to make people forget soon so it becomes a non-issue during the next election. GM's unlimited government funds will dry up slowly, until Ontario's ridiculous Volt subsidies are all that remains.
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If he's going to try to wash his hands of it, why did his administration just bail out GMAC again not 14 days ago??

No. As Obama laid all the prior faults at the feet of Rick Wagoner (rightly or wrongly), we can and must lay all the faults of the company under his stewardship at Obama's feet.
 
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Spectre said:
Yeah, about that... still think it was a good idea? Even at the price of Saab getting screwed?
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I'm undecided, I thought GM had some great products in the pipeline and with new management they could have turned the ship into a new direction. As it turned out, the management stayed exactly the same sans Wagoner and the "New GM" acts exactly the same as the "Old GM".

But let's be honest, Saab was going to get screwed either way. All I'm asking for is for GM to show some backbone, announce what you are intending to do and stick with it. In swedish news, the white and blue collar union representatives have now openly started refering to GM with the prefix "fucking". That sums up the feelings here rather well.

Bonus! First swedish made Saab 9-3 Cabriolet (made yesterday)

 
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AiR said:
I'm undecided, I thought GM had some great products in the pipeline and with new management they could have turned the ship into a new direction. As it turned out, the management stayed exactly the same sans Wagoner and the "New GM" acts exactly the same as the "Old GM".

But let's be honest, Saab was going to get screwed either way. All I'm asking for is for GM to show some backbone, announce what you are intending to do and stick with it. In swedish news, the white and blue collar union representatives have now openly started refering to GM with the prefix "fucking". That sums up the feelings here rather well.
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GM now has zero incentive to change. Or adapt. Or do anything else. Including deal fairly and consistently with other countries or companies.
 
Problem is they change all the time. Whitacre tells us that Saab will be shut down. Yet on the same day GM reiterate that they are taking bids for Saab. As for incentive, protecting their reputation must count for something?
 
AiR said:
Problem is they change all the time. Whitacre tells us that Saab will be shut down. Yet on the same day GM reiterate that they are taking bids for Saab. As for incentive, protecting their reputation must count for something?
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Why should they care what happens to their reputation, especially in Europe? Europe is now a tertiary market for GM. They only care about their two top markets now - 1. China and 2. The US. And the Chinese won't care about how the gwailos screw each other over in Europe.

So besides the lack of financial incentive (thanks to the bottomless pockets of the US Treasury), they have no market share incentive. No reason not to f**k over the Euros.
 
Well we'll see how it turns out, either way it's your money being spent :p
I'm almost over my hatred for Detroit as a whole now, so Ford is once again acceptable. But I'll still look to a properly german brand first next time ;)
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet, but Sunday 17 January was International 'Save SAAB' Day. I didn't realise it was happening until it was too late, I could have brought the Adelaide convoy up from 3 to 4. :)

My quick sums tell me that over 4,600 SAABs participated in convoys and peaceful protests worldwide. The biggest protest was in Tr?llhattan, Sweden. Over 2,000 SAABs were reported to be in attendance.

http://www.saabhistory.com/2010/01/14/save-saab-gatherings-are-growing-around-the-world-2/

I've never seen anything like this before. I don't remember any of GM's other brands getting such a huge amount of love from enthusiasts.
 
I think no one cares anymore. This has been protected for too long and makes no sense.
 
tone76 said:
I've never seen anything like this before. I don't remember any of GM's other brands getting such a huge amount of love from enthusiasts.
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Pontiac was little more than a badge, but despite GM's ownership over the last twenty years, SAAB is still a car company of sorts, with its own factory and such.

It is hardly surprising that people have come out in support of their favourite car company. It perhaps takes a special type of crazy to love SAABs but for those who do, it's literally 'off the scale'. These are the results of a study conducted in Germany as to the 'psychological involvement' that owners have with their cars:

II-09_.jpg


SAAB has an incredibly dedicated fan base, but it is small and the Euro luxury market is crowded. In the 1970s, SAAB were looking for a way to make the 99 more powerful, but dismissed a bigger engine in favour of a smaller, turbocharged unit. This reduced weight, increased fuel economy and with a small turbocharger and computer control (SAAB were the first to introduce computerised engine knock sensing and boost control) the earlier problems with this technology were reduced. Sounds familiar? Almost every car manufacturer does this now. GM themselves profited greatly from SAAB know-how. Reading articles about the new Buick Regal GS, it sounds just like a SAAB, but in the wrong clothing.

Reading articles from the time that GM first bought into SAAB, it is clear that they completely failed to understand what the brand was about. It was never going to be able to compete with a mainstream brand like BMW, and even less likely with a shoestring budget and a box full of leftover Opel Vectra (ugh) parts. The SAAB engineers did the best they could, and the 9-3 and 9-5 are reasonable cars in their own right, but in light of their intended competition, it was doomed to fail.

A real shame, because there was, and there still is, a place in the world for SAAB.
 
tone76 said:
FinalGear missed out buying Viper, maybe we could start a collection to buy SAAB?

http://www.swedishwire.com/business/2465-saab-may-be-sold-for-1-dollar

TBH, I'd happily give GM $1 for SAAB, but we still need to raise a few more dollars for some working capital. :p
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I'm in. Hopefully that includes everything Saab (factory, concepts, the lot). If so, dibs on Aero X concept.

Meanwhile,

We know automakers like to test prototypes in remote, freezing locations to ensure that they'll start and run properly when sold to a family of five in Buffalo, New York. Perhaps these Saab engineers are in such a remote corner of Sweden that they haven't heard the mothership has crashed. While Saab's future is still undecided, hope seems to dwindle by the day that we'll ever see the new 9-5 go on sale to the public ? at least while wearing a Saab badge. Nevertheless, these engineers are still at their mobile desks in case a miracle happens.

The next-gen 9-5 has already been outed and is a looker for sure. The SportCombi version (Saab-speak for wagon) adds an extra dose of practicality to those unique lines of the sedan and, from the look of the things, appears to operate just fine in crazy cold conditions. Not much else to report unless, you know, Saab survives.

https://pic.armedcats.net/c/cr/crazyrussian540/2010/01/19/saab-95-sportcombi-2opt.jpg

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/19/spy-shots-engineers-still-testing-saab-9-5-sportcombi-should-s/
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So does anyone know if Saab is still tagging along to auto shows? I'd love to see the new 9-5 in person at the Pittsburgh show in about three weeks if they're still alive.
 
Just took a look at the map of the Pittsburgh Auto Show, and it doesn't look that good. There is a rather big section for GM, and since most show cars are brought by dealers, I don't see why they wouldn't show up.

I'll probably be there at the show.
 
Hm I just looked at the Philly show map to see if they list GM Brands seperately. They do, and Saab isn't there. The Pittsburgh show is free Saturday with donation of your blood. Centeral Blood Bank will be there 11-5 to take it, presumably after which they will be replaced by soome vampires.
 
Saab is listed on the Boston Auto Show floor map, so I guess its up in the air. (Granted Boston was mid December '09)

And yeah, no thanks to the blood donation. I'll just pay the $10 entry price.
 
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hiimandy1 said:
So does anyone know if Saab is still tagging along to auto shows? I'd love to see the new 9-5 in person at the Pittsburgh show in about three weeks if they're still alive.
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I'm not sure about North American motor shows since SAAB wasn't at the Detroit Motor Show, however they are currently (14-24th Jan) at the European Motor Show in Brussels, and indeed the Belgian distributor has released a price list for the new 9-5 for their market. SAAB is also still on the list for the Geneva Motor Show which will be held on the 4-14th March 2010.

This is the price list for the Belgian market (in French): http://www.ilovesaab.be/documents/pdf/fr/BE_PriceNew95_FR.pdf

It's rather surreal because the company is still operating and the factory is open, yet it is supposed to be shutting down.
 
Lars Carlstr?m of Genii spoke on the radio earlier and he expected a statement from GM during the week. He also wrote a article which Wade google translated into english poorly. I've fixed some of it below.

http://www.saabsunited.com/2010/01/lars-carlstrom-saab-editorial-in-dagens-industri.html

An integrated Saab in GM was to optimize the GM's performance - not Saab. It is amateurish to draw an equation between Saab Automobile AB's results and performance of Saab's entire global operations because a large proportion of consolidated revenues was directed into GM rather than Saab.

Saab Automobile AB's performance is a major component of the allocation and transfer pricing. Saab can not affect currency fluctuations as hedging, materials, production, sales geography and more centrally controlled within GM. The purpose of this has again been optimizing GM's results. Dependence on foreign exchange rates, primarily the euro, pound and dollar, has knocked Saab.

Production development plan, which also is controlled centrally, provides long life cycles in which the benefits of newer cars can not be realized. Saab outgoing 9-5-model is now 12.5 years old.

A large multinational company like GM optimize the performance of the group and not individual units or brands. Nobody knows how much money Cadillac, GMC, Chevrolet has made through history.
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Carlstr?m also appears to be taking a swipe at Sweden's apparent indifference to SAAB. The Swedish government has been slow in providing guarantees to SAAB, and the Swedish media has been tearing into it.

I don't know what the Swedish people think of SAAB, but until last Sunday when 2,500 of them turned up in Trollh?ttan and more rallied in Stockholm, I thought that none of them cared either.
 
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