BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

MWF

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The percentage is irrelevant. It is by far the highest number for any petition on the parliament website since it went live.

More to the point it demonstrates there is a real appetite for giving the final decision back to the UK electorate once the ramifications are known. All parties have tip-toed around the idea since the referendum because they are all scared of alienating their constituents and losing their seats. If enough weight is thrown behind a second vote and there is cross-party agreement then a vote could happen.
 

ahpadt

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The percentage is irrelevant. It is by far the highest number for any petition on the parliament website since it went live.

More to the point it demonstrates there is a real appetite for giving the final decision back to the UK electorate once the ramifications are known. All parties have tip-toed around the idea since the referendum because they are all scared of alienating their constituents and losing their seats. If enough weight is thrown behind a second vote and there is cross-party agreement then a vote could happen.
This. If there was a second referendum right now, there would be a much larger majority for staying within the EU than that against 3 years ago.
 

mpicco

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I find it amazing how people are stuck with the "We voted leave", "the people have spoken" bullcrap. Isn't part of maturing as a person to be able to change your opinions about things, when new information contradicts what you think you knew?

Three years have past. Something like 1.2 million voters have come of age in that period, and remain was vastly supported by the younger stratas. while at the same time older more conservative voters have passed away. Even if everyone voted the same, which they wouldn't at all, remain would win.

Someone with a gram of integrity would accept the politicians have failed at leaving, and that the general public wants something different. It would take some courage to accept this but as seen in the debates, they have none.
 

MWF

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As long as it fits your narrative.
Compare it to the petition started just one day later demanding we leave on Mar 29 with no deal which has garnered roughly 10% of the votes the Revoke petition has.

And compare the People’s Vote turnout in London yesterday with, it was estimated, over 1m participants with Farage’s Brexit march to the capital which is barely into four figures.
 

mpicco

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As long as it fits your narrative.
The reach an informal online petition has in less than 2 weeks vs. the reach of a national referendum with months of campaigning behind it.
Yes, let's ignore absolutely everything and toss it aside.
 
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DanRoM

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As much as I'd like to see a second referendum, I also see it to be hugely difficult to pull off in terms of real-world politics. Plainly put, the EU also wants to keep the UK in preferrably, and thus has a large interest in enabling a second referendum by extending the deadline, but it also can not create a situation where the EU becomes susceptible to blackmail by the UK. We absolutely cannot have a European Parliament without UK members and then the UK says "we'd rather stay". The obvious strategy for the UK is to use this to get some otherwise impossible concessions out of the EU. Luckily, the EU politicians have noticed that as well so I have some hope at least they won't fall into that trap.

It comes to this: The Brexit referendum was three years ago, the UK applied for leaving the EU two years ago with the full knowledge of the timetable. And their government has failed spectacularly to reach an agreement with the rest of the EU. There was a lot of time and opportunities to put a stop to this, or to at least prepare a second referendum in advance for March 2019. The UK government instead went full steam ahead towards the cliffs. To be frank, I along with much of the rest of the EU am just tired of the Brits being such idiots. Just get it fucking over with either way. This farce has used up so much resources over the last two or three years that can be put to much better use. It's not like the world lacks problems for our diplomats to work on.

The idea that a one-time referendum manifests an unchangeable people's will is just absurd. The same argument could serve to abolish elections altogether; after all, the people have voted already. And on top of this farce, the same government that refuses a second referendum tries to push the same Brexit deal through parliament repeatedly within just a few weeks. Don't they notice that something's off here?

Disclaimer: To make it clear, I want the Brits to be part of the European Union. My preferred solution would be a cancellation of Article 50 by the UK, along with a binding agreement not to trigger it again for some amount of years. Nobody wants a UK that is ready to leave undermining the EU from within.
 

prizrak

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The reach an informal online petition has in less than 2 weeks vs. the reach of a national referendum with months of campaigning behind it.
Yes, let's ignore absolutely everything and toss it aside.
So then why would you listen to this petition vs the referendum? Either we take vox populi into account or we don't, in the former case the petition is way too small to matter, in the latter referendum shouldn't have happened period and gov't should simply ignore it.

IMO the referendum was stupid, the reason we elect politicians is for them to be better informed and make big decisions, otherwise there is literally no point in a governing body.
 

avanti

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This eloquent piece by Richard Dawkins sums that situation up very succinctly.

Could Cameron have decided it needed a 2/3 majority? Seems he royally fucked up and is to blame for this..
 

MWF

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Cameron screwed up because he made a deal with UKIP to hold a referendum in return for UKIP withdrawing candidates who were likely to beat existing Tory MPs in their own constituencies and threaten the Tory majority in the house at that particular election.

And then screwed up but not setting a minimal margin for any Leave vote to achieve before Brexit would be considered.

And screwed up even further by accepting a marginal vote in an opinion poll as the actual will of the whole population.
 

Dr_Grip

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I'd like to again remind everyone that the referendum is non-binding legally...
 

CraigB

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I'd like to again remind everyone that the referendum is non-binding legally....
Yet that never seems to come up in parliament, that I've seen.
 

jack_christie

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Richard Harrington, business minister, has resigned to vote for Letwin amendment.

MPs are now voting on Sir Oliver Letwin’s cross-party amendment, which would allow MPs to take control of the parliamentary agenda on Wednesday.
This would allow MPs to put forward business motions relating to Brexit - most likely indicative votes on alternatives to the PM’s deal.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409


Letwin amendment
For - 329

Against - 302

Brexit amendments
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/25/brexit-amendments-another-week-another-set-votes-mps
 
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jack_christie

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Beckett amendment

This says that if the UK is seven days away from leaving without a deal, the government must move a motion within two sitting days (or recall Parliament) to vote on whether to go ahead with no-deal or request an extension "to give time for Parliament to determine a different approach".
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409


Beckett amendment
For - 311

Against - 314
 

jack_christie

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What happens now?
Indicative votes will now be held on Wednesday on various Brexit options, in addition to Theresa May's deal, which could include:
  • Revoking Article 50 and cancelling Brexit
  • Another referendum
  • The PM's deal plus a customs union
  • The PM's deal plus both a customs union and single market access
  • A Canada-style free trade agreement
  • Leaving the EU without a deal
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409
 
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