BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

Interrobang

Forum Addict
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
8,145
Wohooo! 29th March 2019, Brexit day! Today the UK has their independece-back-day!!!! Wooohoooo!!!!

:rolleyes: yeah, that didn't quite work out, did it?

At this point it's going to be a surprise if the Parliment is able to vote "for" anything. Concerning Brexit they've so far only voted against stuff. Against May's deal, against a hard brexit, against alternative brexit-plans ...

As for vote No3 - she still hasn't got the DUP votes, Labour won't vote for her deal ... so why bother?

At this point I think they should take the 2 year extention, hold a general election and then hope that there is a "what kind of brexit do we want"- majority after that. This Government has clearly failed and Mays tactic of "my party will at some point come around because they fear no-brexit" is pretty pityful at this stage ...
When Parliment cannot find an answer, the question should be handed back to the souvereign - the people. And if you don't want to have a second referendum - that means a general election.
 

jack_christie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
4,251
Vote Leave drops appeal against referendum spending fine

The Vote Leave campaign, fronted by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, was found by the Electoral Commission to have funnelled £675,315 through pro-Brexit youth group BeLeave, days before the referendum in 2016, which helped ensure it did not breach its £7m spending limit.

The founder of BeLeave, Darren Grimes, was fined £20,000 and referred to the police, along with Vote Leave official David Halsall.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47755611
 

mpicco

Forum Addict
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
5,377
Location
Portugal
Car(s)
R19
So then why would you listen to this petition vs the referendum? Either we take vox populi into account or we don't, in the former case the petition is way too small to matter, in the latter referendum shouldn't have happened period and gov't should simply ignore it.

IMO the referendum was stupid, the reason we elect politicians is for them to be better informed and make big decisions, otherwise there is literally no point in a governing body.
The vox populi is not taken into account in 99.99999999% of the decisions a government takes.

I never suggested that the petition overrode the referendum. All I'm saying is that it shows that if 6 million people took time out of their lives, after hearing about the petition in some way, deciding that it's worth the effort and that it won't just "be ignored" like everyone suggests,there's an indication that the support for this thought is strong. The petition to go ahead with Brexit had been running for far longer and it didn't get anywhere nearly as many signatures. The march pro-brexit was insignificant compared to the one to revoke A50.

And the indicative votes last week seem to indicate some MPs are starting to get the message. Second referendum got the most Ayes (even if it wasn't the amendment that lost by the least amount of votes).

As Professor Dawkings expresses in the brilliant video MWF posted here, this kind of decision with profound consequences for generations to come should be extremely well analysed and considered by the most qualified people available, not put forth to a simple majority vote for the ill-informed people to decide.

IMO it is high time someone in a position of real power finally has the courage to say the whole process was wrong, apologize, cancel this shit fest and move on with life. There will be no civil war, there will be no "irreparable damage to our democracy" (this debacle has done that already).
 

MWF

Now needs wood
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
27,681
Location
MWF HQ, Ukadia
Car(s)
MX-5 1.8i Indiana SE, update pending
Indications are that May will try to bring her bill to a vote for the fourth time. :wall:

It's like that episode of the Simpsons....

"Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore? Will you take us to Mount Splashmore?..."
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,744
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
@mpicco, not saying referendum made sense or was done correctly, saying it happened and we have the results we have.
As far as petition and march for brexit not being as big, that can be easily explained by the fact that the “yes” is winning by default here.
Gov’t fucked up twice here, first when they made it a decision for the people. And after when they didn’t work out a good process of gtfoing.
 

jack_christie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
4,251
@mpicco, not saying referendum made sense or was done correctly, saying it happened and we have the results we have.
As far as petition and march for brexit not being as big, that can be easily explained by the fact that the “yes” is winning by default here.
Gov’t fucked up twice here, first when they made it a decision for the people. And after when they didn’t work out a good process of gtfoing.
Gov’t has lost about 17 Brexit votes.

Triggered A50 to early, before a plan was established.

Held election when they didn't need to and lost their majority.

Remain protests way out number Brexiteer protests at the moment.

On Monday a Deal with Customs Union might get thru the house, and they might legislate on this.

May might then put forward MV4, as a minority of here party and DUP won't support CU. If she supports CU, it will break the party.

If they can secure a longer extension there could Euro elections and maybe peoples vote towards end of May.


The people’s day of jubilation has been hijacked by spineless pirates

Boris Johnson

This was meant to have been a week of national jubilation. It was meant to be the week when church bells were rung, coins struck, stamps issued and bonfires lit to send beacons of freedom from hilltop to hilltop. This was the Friday when Charles Moore’s retainers were meant to be weaving through the moonlit lanes of Sussex, half blind with scrumpy, singing Brexit shanties at the tops of their voices and beating the hedgerows with staves. This was meant to be the week of Brexit. And what has happened instead? In one of the most protoplasmic displays of invertebracy since the Precambrian epoch, this Government has decided not to fulfil the mandate of the people.
26 March 2019
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/26/peoples-day-jubilation-has-hijacked-spineless-pirates/
 

jack_christie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
4,251
Germany’s deputy foreign minister said the UK government consists mostly of clueless boarding school graduates.

“Brexit is a big shit show, I say that now very undiplomatically,” Michael Roth said at an event of his Social Democratic Party in Berlin on Saturday, accusing “90%” of the British cabinet of having “no idea how workers think, live, work and behave.”

Roth said it would not be those UK politicians “born with silver spoons in their mouths, who went to private schools and elite universities” that will suffer the consequences of the mess. “I don’t know if William Shakespeare could have come up with such a tragedy but who will foot the bill?” the German diplomat said.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/brexit-saga-descends-into-name-calling-german-minister-derides-uk-politicians/articleshow/68649135.cms?from=mdr
 

jack_christie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
4,251
John Bercow announces which amendments he has selected for debate.
  • Motion C: Customs union - Proposer: Ken Clarke, Conservative
  • Motion D: 'Common Market 2.0' - Proposer: Nick Boles, Conservative
  • Motion E: Confirmatory public vote - Proposers: Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson, Labour
  • Motion G: Parliamentary supremacy - Proposer: Joanna Cherry, Scottish National Party
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-47772688

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/01/brexit-what-are-the-indicative-votes-mps-will-vote-on
 

ahpadt

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
9,825
Location
London
C - Ken Clarke’s for a customs union


The Tory former chancellor Ken Clarke’s customs union plan requires any Brexit deal to include, as a minimum, a commitment to negotiate a “permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU”. This was defeated by the smallest margin in the first round, falling just six votes short.


For: 273


Against: 276


Majority against: 3


D - Nick Boles’ for common market 2.0


Tabled by the Conservatives Nick Boles, Robert Halfon and Dame Caroline Spelman, Labour’s Stephen Kinnock and Lucy Powell plus the SNP’s Stewart Hosie. The motion proposes UK membership of the European Free Trade Association (Efta) and European Economic Area. It allows continued participation in the single market and a “comprehensive customs arrangement” with the EU after Brexit – including a “UK say” on future EU trade deals – would remain in place until the agreement of a wider trade deal that guarantees frictionless movement of goods and an open border in Ireland.


For: 261


Against: 282


Majority against: 21


E - Peter Kyle’s for a confirmatory public vote


It has been drawn up by the Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson. This motion would require a public vote to confirm any Brexit deal passed by parliament before its ratification. This option, tabled last time by the Labour former foreign secretary Dame Margaret Beckett, polled the highest number of votes although it was defeated by 295 votes to 268.


For: 280


Against: 292


Majority against: 12


G - Joanna Cherry’s for revoking article 50 in the face of no-deal Brexit


The SNP MP Joanna Cherry joins Grieve and MPs from other parties with this plan to seek an extension to the Brexit process, and if this is not possible then parliament will choose between either no deal or revoking article 50.


An inquiry would follow to assess the future relationship likely to be acceptable to Brussels and have majority support in the UK.


For: 191


Against: 292


Majority against: 101
 

ahpadt

Forum Addict
DONOR
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
9,825
Location
London
3 away from customs union and 12 from confirmatory public vote. FML.
 
Top