Chris Harris Rants against Ferrari

[prizrak]

btw: I am pretty sure that almost no manufacturer runs dyno-tests with press vehicles. At least I remember reading reviews, where cars didn't reach the claimed bhp figures. Of course things could be a bit different with performance cars...

Dyno tests are always pretty tricky, engine performance is very finicky on a hot day you will have less power than on a cold one and different dynos will yield different results. AFAIK the bhp figures that manufacturers post usually involves the motor sitting on a stand hooked up to a dyno. Even though tolerances are pretty tight and most manufacturing is computerized you will still see some variation from motor to motor in the real world, it's just not possible to really make them all the same.

 

[Cold Fussion]

Reminds me of the time when nVidia and ATi were accused of optimizing their video cards to score higher in 3D Mark

Not accused, were found.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Ferrari became irrelevant (to me) after this:

It may have a German engine, but the Zonda seems so much more Italian than any Ferrari.

 

[mpicco]

I still don't think that adjusting the pressure in the tyres and setting up the car for some circuit to make it a full second quicker is cheating in any sense of the word. The car was capable of doing that, but it was set up the wrong way. If you're buying the car for track days, you better know a little about car set up, right?

So to sum up this article and this thread.... The people who build Ferraris don't like seeing their creation losing. Who would?
Honestly the discussion in here is getting as hilariously ridiculous as the fact of those morons being so uptight about their cars. "OMG teh porsche would of smoken those! 2.9 to 60 instead of 3.1, YEAHHH!!" .. come on. Or... "Yeah this supercar business is getting too serious, these cars are supposed to be made to have fun". Yeah which doesn't mean they're made while having fun, or do you think McLaren engineers sing Disney songs while working or the Porsche factories have choreographed robots with a light show to boot?
Yeah Ferrari engineers and generally the people in charge are taking their job a bit too seriously. But really? To think this doesn't happen with other manufacturers?

 

[Gman333-X-ferrari]

I still don't think that adjusting the pressure in the tyres and setting up the car for some circuit to make it a full second quicker is cheating in any sense of the word. The car was capable of doing that, but it was set up the wrong way. If you're buying the car for track days, you better know a little about car set up, right?

So to sum up this article and this thread.... The people who build Ferraris don't like seeing their creation losing. Who would?
Honestly the discussion in here is getting as hilariously ridiculous as the fact of those morons being so uptight about their cars. "OMG teh porsche would of smoken those! 2.9 to 60 instead of 3.1, YEAHHH!!" .. come on. Or... "Yeah this supercar business is getting too serious, these cars are supposed to be made to have fun". Yeah which doesn't mean they're made while having fun, or do you think McLaren engineers sing Disney songs while working or the Porsche factories have choreographed robots with a light show to boot?
Yeah Ferrari engineers and generally the people in charge are taking their job a bit too seriously. But really? To think this doesn't happen with other manufacturers?

Haha, exactly.

And do you remember the recent "McLaren MP4-12C Launch". McLaren bought 3 fully set-up MP4-12Cs, tuned specifically for the Portimo Circuit in Spain with a full team of engineers and "let the journalists drive around" for a couple of laps. Then they had an F1 driver, Button, drive the car with the journalists to show what the car can do in a bid to impress the journalists.

You don't see the same people here harping on about that do you? I guess, if people here weren't so biased here it would be different.

 

[vikiradTG2007]

And do you remember the recent "McLaren MP4-12C Launch". McLaren bought 3 fully set-up MP4-12Cs, tuned specifically for the Portimo Circuit in Spain with a full team of engineers and "let the journalists drive around" for a couple of laps. Then they had an F1 driver, Button, drive the car with the journalists to show what the car can do in a bid to impress the journalists.

Is that car in production yet? I don't think so, maybe only one or two production models have been made. So the car was still in "testing and development" mode.

 

[Gman333-X-ferrari]

Is that car in production yet? I don't think so, maybe only one or two production models have been made. So the car was still in "testing and development" mode.

So you're saying that they bought a production prototype that was unlikely to be like the road car (likely tuned to be faster), to a media launch? Thanks for proving my point.

 

[vikiradTG2007]

So you're saying that they bought a production prototype that was unlikely to be like the road car (likely tuned to be faster), to a media launch? Thanks for proving my point.

No, I'm saying that final car setup adjustments could have been made to the car during the "media launch" and the data transferred to the production line.

And the point of the original story isn't about media launches of cars, it's more about comparison tests which take place once the car has been in production for a while.

 

[the Interceptor]

We're slowly getting there I see...

Yeah Ferrari engineers and generally the people in charge are taking their job a bit too seriously. But really? To think this doesn't happen with other manufacturers?

If you read the article, it seems the others don't, no. I'm sure a lot of the performance vehicle manufacturers make sure the rubber on their cars is fresh and that the engine power leans towards the upper end of the variations. Ferrari however takes this to a whole new level with what they do. I mean they even refuse to grant journalists the right to drive current Ferraris without their permission. How low can they go?

Haha, exactly.

And do you remember the recent "McLaren MP4-12C Launch". McLaren bought 3 fully set-up MP4-12Cs, tuned specifically for the Portimo Circuit in Spain with a full team of engineers and "let the journalists drive around" for a couple of laps. Then they had an F1 driver, Button, drive the car with the journalists to show what the car can do in a bid to impress the journalists.

You don't see the same people here harping on about that do you? I guess, if people here weren't so biased here it would be different.

Of course, you had to pull the "people are biased" card again. Every time Ferrari is pulled out of the light, people are biased. They are all evil and use every opportunity to talk the prancing horse down. Right...

There is a clear difference between the launch of a new model and a comparison test. They bring several cars because there are a lot of journalists who want to have a go. They make sure the cars are up to the job as best as possible, because journalists will soon after spurt out their first impressions. And they put a professional racing driver on the LOL seat to show the real car's potential ... what exactly is wrong with that? If Ferrari would bring three well set-up 458's and Fernando Alonso to the car's launch, noone would complain either.

A comparison test however was invented to compare different cars. It only makes sense when the cars are at least somewhere around the mark they would be if you go into the showroom and buy one. Like I said, a certain level of optimization sure is okay. It's the level Ferrari has taken this to which is the problem.

 

[MacGuffin]

Well, let me say it again sloooowly for the Ferrari fans: The cars are brilliant, they are not being critizied here.

It's the company Ferrari, which we seem to have a problem with. Mainly because they seem to have a problem with the public and the press. As I already elaborated here, I believe they act that way out of fear, because they see they've lost their status of being unique in the world of motoring, especially during the last 10 years or so.

 

[Dr_Grip]

If i learnt anything from my time in the F1 subforum it is that it makes no sense to even try to have a discussion about Ferrari with Gman and mpicco.

 

[MacGuffin]

I know but we are in general automotive now and I thought that could make a difference.

Yeah, call me naive, if you want...

 

[Gman333-X-ferrari]

Like I said, a certain level of optimization sure is okay. It's the level Ferrari has taken this to which is the problem.

At the end of the day, other journalists don't have a problem with it, other car manufacturer don't have a problem with it, but I guess Chris Harris and a dozen people on the internet do.

Mainly because they seem to have a problem with the public and the press. As I already elaborated here, I believe they act that way out of fear, because they see they've lost their status of being unique in the world of motoring, especially during the last 10 years or so.

I know right? They have a huge problem with the public and the press and they must be scared shitless of the opposition from other makers...

*Meanwhile at Ferrari...*

 

[the Interceptor]

At the end of the day, other journalists don't have a problem with it, other car manufacturer don't have a problem with it

Says who? The fact that Harris had the balls to spell this out doesn't mean that other journalists and car makers detest the happenings. But every journalist doing that would risk his job, and every car maker doing that would risk looking like sore loser.

I know right? They have a huge problem with the public and the press and they must be scared shitless of the opposition from other makers...

*Meanwhile at Ferrari...*

Sorry, what does one have to do with the other? Ferrari being obsessed with being #1 everywhere isn't necessarily connected to their profits. You can be the biggest and richest company in the world and still want to have more power and more control.

 

[D-Fence]

If i learnt anything from my time in the F1 subforum it is that it makes no sense to even try to have a discussion about Ferrari with Gman and mpicco.

Truth has been spoken, allthough these two are the few people I frequently hit with negrep.

Ferrari fanboys are the worst of them all........and Gman33-x-Ferrari is their king.


And just to annoy him:

https://pic.armedcats.net/d/d-/d-fence/2011/02/18/normal_demotiv_pic_6790-massa_alonso.jpg

As well, Ferrari should maybe next time check their brilliant new supercar doesn't randomly catch fire, I mean, in the end, they are just Fiats.

 

[Gman333-X-ferrari]

Says who? The fact that Harris had the balls to spell this out doesn't mean that other journalists and car makers detest the happenings. But every journalist doing that would risk his job, and every car maker doing that would risk looking like sore loser.

Sorry, what does one have to do with the other? Ferrari being obsessed with being #1 everywhere isn't necessarily connected to their profits. You can be the biggest and richest company in the world and still want to have more power and more control.

Sorry, but you're just wasting your time, your opinion will always be different to mine and I don't have the time or see the point of continuing this argument any further. Continue the Ferrari bashing and have a nice day.


@D-Fence:

 

[Arctor]

Ferrari fanboys are the worst of them all........

You have no idea. At trackdays if you want to find the most annoying, supercilious, self-centered pricks just look for the people with a small prancing horse on their car. They also have an endless amount of excuses as to why a 20 year old car designed in the early 70's was able to pass them in their (at the time) brand new 430. I've even had one Ferrari owner attempt to run me off track to "save face" as I was passing him.

 

[ahpadt]

Haha, exactly.

And do you remember the recent "McLaren MP4-12C Launch". McLaren bought 3 fully set-up MP4-12Cs, tuned specifically for the Portimo Circuit in Spain with a full team of engineers and "let the journalists drive around" for a couple of laps. Then they had an F1 driver, Button, drive the car with the journalists to show what the car can do in a bid to impress the journalists.

You don't see the same people here harping on about that do you? I guess, if people here weren't so biased here it would be different.

Autocar said that the McLaren is head and shoulders above the 458 dynamically. That's enough for me. </fanboy argument>

 

[mpicco]

I am not defending Ferrari for trying to be the best at whichever cost. I am merely stating the fact that acting all "OMG BASTARDS" at this is at the very least hypocritical, when there are many of you self proclaimed McLaren fans, do I have to remind you a certain event of espionage that happened not too long ago?
All companies do asshole-y things sometimes to get ahead. This isn't new

And Ferrari was never alone in the supercar or racing business. Their name and fame doesn't come from being "the only ones", for some reason, winning or losing, having the best cars or just overpriced junk, the prancing horse and the red sporty cars became more famous than others. The first supercar was the gullwing Merc, wasn't it? There were Astons, Maseratis, Bugattis, Lambos, Porsches, etc etc all throughout history competing with Ferrari.

I just came here to state that I understand what's going on, I think it's blown way out of proportion because little silly figures like 0-60 times mean mostly nothing, cos as I've said, someone who goes and puts 150 grand on a car is probably not gonna choose it for it's figures but just to say "hell yeah, boyhood dream achieved, I'm driving a xxxx" and replace xxxx with Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, whatever. It's quite silly that Ferrari are going to such lengths to influence these tests, and even sillier that people go all nuts about the fact.

I am actively calling Ferrari out on this but I guess yeah it's impossible to talk to me. If I posted the same things under other username nobody would be the wiser. But just cos it's mpicco, yeah let's negrep him as soon as he says Ferrari.

 

[D-Fence]

OMG YOU SAID FERRARI!

@Arctor: Says a lot there are almost no Ferraris on the N?rburgring but a shitton of Porsches, Lambos, Audis etc. To me, a Ferrari is for pulling up at your icecream parlor and getting laid with 16 year olds.