Dan Wheldon dead

Statistically speaking, we should not be running cars on road courses either, because those are technically and statistically more dangerous. See: Senna. Also, see the Ring itself, where more people die in six months than have died in in CART/IndyCars since 1982. Additional point: The largest and deadliest race crashes in history? Top 5 have been on road courses, mostly in Europe - topped by LeMans 1955, a road course, where 84 people were killed.

The wall is the wall, whether it's at the top of the banking of an oval or at the end of a turn on a road course doesn't really matter much if you go straight into it cockpit first at over 180mph.

It's kind of a skewed comparison; you can't really change the track at an oval to add run-off or move back walls or barriers if you spot a potential accident spot. On a road course, you can move the walls and barriers back as far as you have the land and planning permission to. It's just that that didn't start happening until the last 10 years there.
For that reason, ovals haven't really changed in decades, whereas road courses have come a long long way in terms of safety. You can't just mention Senna and a LeMans race from half a century ago, the "road courses" are now an order of magnitude safer than they were even from Senna's time, whereas the ovals can surely only make marginal improvements (materials and construction of catch fences being discussed here).

It's not important what was safer 50 years ago, or even 20. It's important how safe they can be made now. How much safer can an oval be made? As safe as new "road courses", where they can try to have six acres of run off before the nearest barriers, because the layouts allow that?
I should say for the record, I'm not for neutering oval racing or discouraging it. I'm saying modern "road course" safety is leaps and bounds beyond what you're quoting.

There's a full thread on the canopy discussion somewhere (in the F1 forum) for those interested.

Jody Scheckter makes some points I wouldn't have thought of in this article regarding the set-ups bringing the more experienced/talented and less experienced/talented drivers closer;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/15336902.stm

And Franchitti alludes to poor driving practises ("people were starting to do crazy stuff").
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/15335428.stm
 
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It has been hijacked, and I feel that such discussions are not yet appropriate until we actually know what happened in that accident. 15 cars crashing together is a mess, it'll take some time before everything is sorted out and we know how it started, what went on and how the fatal incident actually took place. Only then can we properly debate what measures can/may be taken in order to prevent anything like this happening again. Anything up to that is mere speculation.

It seems some don't know how to swallow their pride. Always have to act as a bloody know it all. :mad:
 
personally i think that catch fence did it. it is designed for stock cars with closed cockpits and not an open wheel racer. it was the first thought i had when i saw the crash. IMHO
 
Lorenzo Bandini and Roger Williamson would disagree with you. Well, if they were still alive they would - and those cars were easier to exit than current ones, having larger and wider cockpits.

Not true. This is a March 731, which Williamson was driving.


5600501194_0be8028886_o.jpg



Notice how close the top of the helmet is to the top of the roll hoop, and also how tight the cockpit is. If that thing flips, you are trapped.

Bandini's is the same story. Modern cars have a much higher roll hoop. Modern formula Mazda (roll hoop goes all the way over the air inlet):


Court-Vernon-Star-Mazda.jpg



Also, the sizes of the cockpit openings have only ever grown in the years since the 70s in most cases (Formula Ford and F2000 are still in the dark ages there). Without the shroud a modern cockpit is cavernous.
 
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Surely the talk about cockpits should be taken to its own thread. A man has just died and all people are doing is just jumping on the safety bandwagon and using it to spout their personal views. respect the man and mourn his loss. But this kind of talk is downright insulting to his memory.
 
Surely the talk about cockpits should be taken to its own thread. A man has just died and all people are doing is just jumping on the safety bandwagon and using it to spout their personal views. respect the man and mourn his loss. But this kind of talk is downright insulting to his memory.

This is a thread about a motorsport accident. Talking about what can be done to improve survivability rates in motorsport accidents could not be more relevant. Nobody has been using it as a bandwagon. If you don't want to be part of that discussion that's fine. Don't sour the topic by using words like "insulting" and "thread hijacking". Just move on. Nobody is having an argument, they're having a discussion.
 
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This is a thread about a motorsport accident. Talking about what can be done to improve survivability rates in motorsport accidents could not be more relevant. Nobody has been using it as a bandwagon. If you don't want to be part of that discussion that's fine. Don't sour the topic by using words like "insulting" and "thread hijacking". Just move on. Nobody is having an argument, they're having a discussion.
This. Talking about the circumstances surrounding someone's death after a race and what can be done to prevent it from ever happening again is hardly insulting or demeaning.

Imagine if that discussion had taken place after Ratzenberger died.
 
It is a shame that Wheldon was killed, that said, there were 14 other cars involved in that horrific wreck, few of those were also air born.
With all the wreckage it is amazing that there were no other serious injuries, I think that speaks volumes on the safety of the Indy Cars.
In 2012, there will be a new design which incorporates a body of the car almost completely covering the rear wheels. This design should help
eliminate the cars going air born. The irony is that Dan Wheldon was the one doing most of the testing on the prototype.

http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-izod-indycar-series/44480-on-track-for-new-era-in-2012/
 
I'm stunned. I was away since Wednesday and only heard about this yesterday on the radio when I was driving back home :(

And, I have to say, I am highly annoyed with people on general sports boards (not FG, haven't seen any yet, lol) using this as a springboard to say that motorsport isn't a sport....that ticks me off :mad:
 
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