DieselGate Part Deux: Justice Dept. Sues Fiat Chrysler over Diesel ?Defeat Devices'

rickhamilton620

has a fetish for terrible cars
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TTAC said:
The U.S. Department of Justice has filed a civil lawsuit against Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, alleging the automaker violated the Clean Air Act.

At the root of the lawsuit is roughly 104,000 Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee vehicles equipped with the 3.0-liter diesel V6, sold between 2014 and 2016. Earlier this year, the Environmental Protection Agency accused FCA of failing to disclose eight auxiliary emissions control devices during the certification process. The vehicle?s software allows for higher-than-permitted emissions at certain times.

Despite FCA?s protests ? as well as attempts to head off a potential multi-billion-dollar fine ? the parallels between this case and Volkswagen?s emissions saga are growing by the day.

The EPA called the automaker?s failure to reveal the emissions software a ?serious violation of the Clean Air Act,? and, as we?ve seen with VW, the penalties for such an infraction can be enormous. In FCA?s case, it could face a fine totaling $4.6 billion. The Justice Department launched a criminal investigation into the issue in January.

Much more at the source: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/05/justice-department-sues-fiat-chrysler-diesel-devices/
 
Mercedes might also be in trouble for their own cheating software. The German government is sharing information with the U.S. authorities from what they gathered on a search of the Mercedes' offices.
 
Yeah, this is separate from the earlier incident where Fiat had made arrangements with the EPA to sell non-compliant cars here and fix them afterwards, but was just slow on fulfilling their part of the agreement to fix them. The EPA is going to be landing on these guys pretty hard; they have no sense of humor and really dislike people lying to them.

Mercedes, we'll have to see. Remember, they've been raided but nobody's said anything accusing them yet - there may not have been something to find. I would be surprised if they did find something because so far I've not seen any tester who found anything wrong with them.

Either way, if it turns out that other USDM vendors of diesel passenger cars were lying, cheating assholes? I don't care where they're from, they need to burn like VW did.
 
I'm still going to blame the EPA. Because, reasons. ;)

RIP Diesel passenger cars.
I think thats the nail.

+1, probably most likely the outcome for the US. Trucks will still have them and likely vocational vans but probably not in anything smaller than a half-ton pickup will have a diesel.
 
GM has started making SUVs with diesels, and the Cruze has one available. We will see how long that lasts.
 
That makes two of us. However, I think it is more likely that they realized they bought a Cruze and this is a way to get their money back. ;)

If true though, GM needs to be smacked around like VW.
 
I'm still going to blame the EPA. Because, reasons. ;)



+1, probably most likely the outcome for the US. Trucks will still have them and likely vocational vans but probably not in anything smaller than a half-ton pickup will have a diesel.

Half ton trucks likely won't have them as they're classed with passenger cars for emissions. If passenger cars can't have diesels, they generally won't either. And the take rate for the EcoDiesel hasn't been great. I also haven't heard that the new Cummins diesel options in the Tundra and the Tundra are selling well, so we'll see on that.
 
Half ton trucks likely won't have them as they're classed with passenger cars for emissions. If passenger cars can't have diesels, they generally won't either. And the take rate for the EcoDiesel hasn't been great. I also haven't heard that the new Cummins diesel options in the Tundra and the Tundra are selling well, so we'll see on that.

That's actually quite interesting. I see quite a few of those Eco Diesel RAM 1500's around here.
 
That's actually quite interesting. I see quite a few of those Eco Diesel RAM 1500's around here.

They all must live in your neighborhood because they're not selling well even in Texas as an overall market. Dealers are still trying to unload 2016 EcoDiesels in southern DFW. I drive all over DFW daily and I just don't see many - which correlates well with the pretty bad US sales numbers the things have had after the first year or so.
 
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They all must live in your neighborhood because they're not selling well even in Texas as an overall market. Dealers are still trying to unload 2016 EcoDiesels in southern DFW. I drive all over DFW daily and I just don't see many - which correlates well with the pretty bad US sales numbers the things have had after the first year or so.

I think it's because I'm so close to many rural areas--that's usually just about where I see them. They do ok out there I guess?
 
I think it's because I'm so close to many rural areas--that's usually just about where I see them. They do ok out there I guess?

When I've been running down past Waxahatchie and Cleburne or up past Van Alstyne I don't see many there either. You see the HD Cummins diesel Rams, but not many EcoDiesels. Even when running out to the hinterlands of El Paso last year, I can't recall seeing any ED Rams.

Also, the video I posted a few months ago of a dealer desperately attempting to dump leftover EDs was a rural North Texas dealer.
 
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I took note of 1 ecodiesel ram when I rode from Trinidad Colorado back to Dallas yesterday. Just 1 out of all of the holiday weekend traffic.
 
DieselGate Part Deux: Justice Dept. Sues Fiat Chrysler over Diesel ?Defeat Devices'

Unlikely. Payload and towing capacity is pretty bad for a modern pickup and I can't imagine it would be price competitive with a regular fleet-config F-150 or Silverado 1500.

Edit: And it isn't. I just looked at their cost comparison section and they're making some interesting assumptions about gasoline/electric mix and maintenance costs. The truck doesn't appear to have a low range available in its 4WD/AWD option and that's been a demonstrable real-world problem for electric trucks in the past. The four door cab is also oddly designed with tiny rear doors that either are undersized or open the wrong way.

Basically, this thing looks like it would work well for the tiny number of people that bought the Honda Ridgeline and that's about it.
 
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For now it is not for regular customers, it is for commercial use and as you are saying they are in the range of small pick-uk trucks.

For the future I am not worrying about the torque at all, I used to work with electric fork lifts in the 1980's and even with lead batteries they were powerful and efficient.

GM and others will come with more models soon.
 
I don't doubt for a second that electric propulsion is the way forward. No more torque converters, clutches, umpteen speed transmissions, variable this and that, turbocharging or other various bits and bobs that have been invented for one reason only: to make the internal combustion engine work.

Where we'll source that electricity is a whole different deal. Batteries, hydrogen, etc?

For now, I'm too dependent on my car and too comfortable with my situation to try something different. I'll leave it to the early adopters to figure stuff out.
 
For now it is not for regular customers, it is for commercial use and as you are saying they are in the range of small pick-uk trucks.

For the future I am not worrying about the torque at all, I used to work with electric fork lifts in the 1980's and even with lead batteries they were powerful and efficient.

GM and others will come with more models soon.

It's even worse if they're competing against the compact/mid-size offerings. This thing is $20-30K more than a fleet config compact truck; that $30K will buy a *lot* of maintenance and fuel.

Also, GM tried this before. It didn't work out.
Unlike the EV1, of the 492 S-10EVs assembled about 60 were sold to fleet customers, rather than just leased through restrictive programs, mostly due to the prior Department of Transportation crash-worthiness evaluations done on stock S-10 pickups. As a result, a few Electric S-10s can still be found in use today. The fleet life of many of these ended in 2007 and 2008. The vehicles (around 440) that were not sold were eventually scrapped, similar to the fate of their EV1 siblings.

That didn't work out. Neither did their next attempt or the attempt after that.
GM launched a hybrid version of the Silverado/Sierra in 2004, becoming the first ever GM hybrid passenger vehicle. Known within GM as the Parallel Hybrid Truck or PHT it is not actually a parallel hybrid by the current definition, but a type of micro hybrid design. The electric motor housed within the transmission flywheel housing, serves only to provide engine cranking/starting, battery charging, and powering accessories. The engine automatically shuts down as the truck comes to a stop and uses 42 Volt electric power to the starter/generator unit to restart the engine as the brake pedal is released. Besides the typical 12 V automotive battery the PHT uses three additional 12 V valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries mounted under the rear seat to store and provide power. The truck uses a 5.3 L Vortec 5300 V8 for primary propulsion power. These trucks were also purchased back from customers for more than what they were worth in the late 2000s.

The PHT features four 120 volt 20 amp AC outlets, two in the bed and two inside the cab under the rear seat. These are particularly interesting to the building/construction contractor market, since they often require AC power when on the job. Additionally, the extra reserves of power for the accessories make this truck well-suited to that market, where trucks often sit at idle for hours at a time.

Availability was extremely limited at first, with commercial buyers getting the first allotment. Later in 2005, the truck was offered at retail in Alaska, California, Florida, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Canada. For 2006-07 the truck was generally available to retail buyers throughout North America. The Parallel Hybrid Truck was discontinued for the 2008 model year with the release of the GMT900 truck line. Starting in 2009, General Motors offers a second generation Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra equipped with a Two-Mode Hybrid powertrain and 4-speed CVT.[7]

The GMT800 and 900 hybrids sold so well that the current K2XX truck does not have any sort of hybrid option - i.e., almost nobody bought them.

Given that it's GM, I don't see them trying the experiment again any time soon.
 
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