Eunos_Cosmo's epic [new car - NA market] daily driver search!

Eunos_Cosmo

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Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
6,968
Location
Oakland
Car(s)
'84 Mazda RX7, '12 Mazda 2, '99 Porsche Boxster
I'm not really going to elaborate on the decision to go with a new car. I just am.

I set for myself these criteria:

Small
Fun to drive
Fuel Efficient (in this case 32mpg+ combined)
Good looking
Affordable (in this case well under 20k)
Manual Transmission (under no circumstances will I tolerate a small engine with an Auto or CVT)

So with that being established, I've made myself a list of cars to go look at, chat up the dealerships about, and most importantly, drive.

-Ford Fiesta (Driven 3_31, post 15)
-Mazda2 (Driven 3_30, post 1)
-Kia Soul too large
-Nissan Juke too expensive
-Fiat 500 (Driven 3_30, post 1)
-Mazda3 skyactiv too expensive
-Mazda5 skyactiv (outside my price range, but who cares!)
-Honda Fit (Driven 3_31, post 15)
-Honda Civic Too expensive, too big, not good enough of a car
-Honda CR-Z (begrudgingly only offered with a cvt in my price range) Enormous blind spot, stupid hybrid, too expensive
-Kia Forte Too bland, too big.
-Kia Rio
-Hyundai Veloster

EDIT: Gone through and edited my list. I've crossed out some after thinking about them a little more and deciding they aren't what I want


I'm going to add to the list as I think of them. I will be posting mostly test drive notes and a sort of cursory summary of each car. Partially for my benefit, partially for everyone's. Therefore, some of the information will be subjective.

So, onto the first two candidates I drove today, 3_30_2012. The Mazda2 and the Fiat 500. I'll start with the Fiat.

Fiat 500

+Fantastic Styling, inside and out. It's just a good looking thing. Awesome gauge cluster.
+More practical than I would have guessed. Fairly large trunk/boot area and the rear seats fold down.
+"Sport Mode"
+Great stereo

-Inane ergonomics
-Flat powerband, uninspiring engine
-Sloppy steering
-Sloppy gear-change
-Questionable build quality
-Too high seating position
-Essentially unusable rear seats

$18,5xx as tested. Sport model, with no options

Overall I was pretty disappointed with the Fiat. I really wanted to like it, and I did until I sat inside it. The seating position is just dumb. I felt way too upright and high, like I was driving a van. Even after only a few minutes, my left leg and ankle started to hurt from the position required of them to actuate the clutch pedal. Forget heel and toe, it's not going to happen easily. Even more so when the engine is nearly mute, and doesn't really give you any feedback. Off idle torque is good, but after 3,500rpm it just feels pointless to rev it any higher. The body control when not in sport mode is strangely vague, as is the steering response. Why isn't the car just always in sport mode? I don't understand it. The clutch is very, very soft, and the engagement point is, again, vague. Gear-shift is adequate, but not really rewarding. Dynamically, the Fiat is just not a very good car. Worryingly, I don't see how the Abarth could correct some of these very fundamental issues either. If you want a cruiser that will look good in downtown, and you prefer an automatic, I can see how this car would be appealing. But I had no fun with it.


Mazda2:

+Willing engine
+Willing, tossable chassis
+Mazda!
+Solid gearbox
+Good driving position
+Responsive in general
+Decent back seat room

-BLAND
-Decade-old looking interior

$15,5xx as tested. Almost no options

I preferred the Mazda2 to the Fiat, which is something I was not expecting. Even with a very American-sized salesman (300lbs easy) in the car with me, the car seemed to feel quicker than the Fiat. Everything felt very connected and communicative. It felt like an early 90s hatchback instead of a contemporary thing, which, to me, is great. All the controls were nicely weighted and feedback was provided just fine. I feel like I could get between the steering, engine, and gearbox much easier than in the Fiat. I was also able to heel and toe quite easily, perhaps even easier than in my Integra. The engine has 'acceptable' off-idle torque, but it actually likes to rev. Above 4,000rpm it was pretty damn fun, which surprised me a lot. However, the exterior design is just mediocrity at it's worst, and the interior is pretty low rent and uninspiring. The stereo is also pretty average in the base model. So of the 2, the Mazda is definitely the "better" car objectively. Quite a bit cheaper too. I just wish it was better looking. Shame really.


Next time I go driving, I think I'm going to drive a Fiesta. It should deliver everything I liked about the Mazda, but it looks better and it seems to have a nicer interior. Will update this continuously. By all means, you guys can make suggestions of cars to drive. I am very sad that our selection of hatchbacks in the USA is so limited. I'd really love to drive a Renault Twingo, Suzuki Swift, and Citroen DS3

:mrgreen:
 
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When I saw "NA" in the thread title I thought you'd just bought a 1st-gen Miata. This forum does things to people.
 
haha. NA-North American
 
Isint the base and cheapest CR-Z a 6 speed? And out of that list I would probably go for the Veloster. I think it is by far the most interesting small car on the market. I really like the CR-Z too but I don't see the benefit of the hybrid system in it. On the cheaper end I would prolly go for the Fit or Fiesta. I saw the mazda2 on the street yesterday and it has very bland styling and looks terribly low-rent.
 
I'm interested in what you think of the Ford and the Koreans. The new Civic is a let down, but the Fit seems interesting, as does the CRZ, although I'm not really a fan of hybrids due to the complexity and cost of replacing batteries if you were to keep it very long. The Fit and CRZ are both built in Japan, iirc, while the Civic is Canadian.
 
The 2 is built in Japan as well. I think it's going to be between the 2, the Fiesta, and the Fit. I despise the way the Hyundais look (though I still plan on driving the Veloster) and the CR-Z is realistically too expensive (short term and long term) with no real benefit.

The 2 has basically good lines, but just is a little whimpy looking stock. Mazdaspeed has an answer for that, though:

20101104083619450.jpg


I plan on driving a Fit and a Fiesta tomorrow.
 
The 2 is built in Japan as well. I think it's going to be between the 2, the Fiesta, and the Fit. I despise the way the Hyundais look (though I still plan on driving the Veloster) and the CR-Z is realistically too expensive (short term and long term) with no real benefit.

The 2 has basically good lines, but just is a little whimpy looking stock. Mazdaspeed has an answer for that, though:

20101104083619450.jpg


I plan on driving a Fit and a Fiesta tomorrow.


i will say the steering is quite remarkable on the fiesta
 
^^The front of the 2 isint that bad in stock either, I think it really fails in the back:
2011-mazda-mazda2-4-door-hb-auto-sport-angular-rear-exterior-view_100322391_l.jpg

When I was following it...I couldn't get over how wimpy looking its exhaust looked like :lol: it reminded me of those mid 90s toyota corollas with the really narrow and long exhaust pipes.

I have a feeling its gonna come down to the fiesta and the fit.
 
^^The front of the 2 isint that bad in stock either, I think it really fails in the back:
View attachment 6175

When I was following it...I couldn't get over how wimpy looking its exhaust looked like :lol: it reminded me of those mid 90s toyota corollas with the really narrow and long exhaust pipes.

I have a feeling its gonna come down to the fiesta and the fit.

that is untill he try's the skyactiv mazda's. they are suposidly really fun to drive.
 
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All skyactivs are well outside my price range. Wish they offered that 155hp unit in the Mazda2! That would be one hell of a combo. Probably 50+mpg
 
All skyactivs are well outside my price range. Wish they offered that 155hp unit in the Mazda2! That would be one hell of a combo. Probably 50+mpg

if you get a GS-sky with no options you could get one for 20K (in canada so less in the us)

yea i am also waiting for the mazda2 skyactiv also that'd be a interesting car. pretty quick im guessing too.

the american MAZDA3 i Touring 4-Door with the skyactiv comes in at under 20k
 
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Good luck finding a 3 skyactiv with no options. Every one the dealer I went to had was fully loaded.
 
im sure they would get one in for you if you said you wanted it. i mean it IS a sale and they should do everything they can to get that sale and have you come back for matinence where they make their money.
 
Drove 2 more cars today:

Ford Fiesta
+Good looking body
+Quality feel inside and out
+Very usable
+Lots of nice features
+Good steering
+Good body control
+40mpg

-Terrible dealership experience
-Not quite as good to drive as the Mazda
-Expensive
-Tacky, gaudy, overstyled interior
-Interior auxiliary controls are a mess
-Engine sounds industrial

$19,8xx(!) as tested. Lots of options.

The thing that sticks out in my mind most about the Fiesta was the rather poor dealership experience. I was walking around in the showroom for a few minutes before anyone even bothered to talk to me. When I finally did get ahold of a salesman, he made me sit around and fill out paperwork for a good 30 minutes before even going to look at the car. His speal about the dealership being 'different' and 'no haggle' made the experience altogether more ironic and annoying. In the end he was trying to convince me a 10% APR was a good deal that a fully optioned car was cheaper than a base model, and I was looking at paying something near $400 a month, for a Fiesta! Absurd! Aside from the ridiculous experience (which caused me to arrive at the Honda dealership after they closed, see below) the Fiesta is basically a pretty good car. It looks good and drives good. But it doesn't drive quite as good as the Mazda (feels heavier, feels less precise and seems to not have quite the responsiveness) and the interior is really, really bad. The materials are nice, but I don't think I could live with the star trek scheme for very long. The engine also sounded a bit weezy. In the end, the car was just too expensive (approaching $20,000 before TT&L and such) and not as good as I was hoping.

As a side note, and another thing to add to the list of annoyances with the dealer, the salesman tried to tell me that the rubber engine mount was something very special. I should have showed him my 20 year old Integra.

Honda Fit Sport
+Fun
+Willing Engine (with a proper Honda 4 cylinder sound)
+Chuckable Chassis with good steering
+Nice interior
+I like the styling

-Auto-tragic
-Not very good fuel economy
-Too-cavernous interior (does the dashboard EVER end??)
-Expensive comparatively speaking
-Questionable quality and materials

$19,xxx as tested. Essentially fully loaded.

I liked the Fit. The engine makes a good noise, the chassis works well, and the overall styling is pretty good to my eyes. This is the only one of the four that I've driven that was an automatic, and ironically, it was the only one I was able to drive on a decent road. In the twisty sections the chassis felt pretty good. Turn-in is keen and it has good grip. I wasn't really approaching the limit, but there was definitely some body roll. The seats aren't that supportive, but it's an economy car after all. The steering is weighted very well and is as precise as any modern car, but it seems to lack feel. The engine revs up with typical Honda wreckless abandon and probably makes more noise than any of the other cars I've driven. It felt about equal to the Ford in terms of speed, and perhaps a bit slower than the Mazda. It's just a shame the engine was paired to a rather dull automatic transmission. It isn't the worst auto I've driven, but it just deadens the experience. From the driver seat, the interior of the Fit seems pretty large. This is good and bad to me. I feel like in the summer, all of the glass would really make the interior hard to keep cool. Also, I feel so far away from the windshield in the fit, that it's almost like being the captain on the bridge. I like to be part of the experience, not feel like a proxy to the experience. The seating position is also rather high, and combined with the tall greenhouse, I felt somehow conspicuous and vulnerable. That sounds dumb, but that's what I thought. This was a sport model with nearly every option, so the price tag was pretty damn high. More than I'm willing to spend. I told the guy to call me if they get a base model with a manual transmission and I'll come back and talk business.

In contrast to the Ford dealer, the Honda dealer was very cool. I walked in 30 minutes after they technically closed, but were more than willing to show me the car. Not after I filled out some paper work and sat in a cubicle, but on my own time, which was nice. So far all of the dealerships apart from Ford have been pretty good, which is counter to what I would have expected.


At this point, the Mazda is tugging at me the most. Perhaps it's partly due to my inner-fanboy, but I really liked that car. Tomorrow I'm going to try to test out the Kia Rio 5 and see how that goes.
 
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If you have any serious questions about the Veloster, you're welcome to pm me.
 
^^The front of the 2 isint that bad in stock either, I think it really fails in the back:
View attachment 6175

When I was following it...I couldn't get over how wimpy looking its exhaust looked like :lol: it reminded me of those mid 90s toyota corollas with the really narrow and long exhaust pipes.

I have a feeling its gonna come down to the fiesta and the fit.

By the way, the Mazda2 Mazdaspeed rear looks good too, IMO

customized-mazda2-concept-2009-la-auto-show-16.jpg


The only problem is I don't think any of those parts are produced :/
 
im sure they would get one in for you if you said you wanted it. i mean it IS a sale and they should do everything they can to get that sale and have you come back for matinence where they make their money.

Still buying a car that is already on the lot has more room for bargaining than a car a dealership has to order, there is little room to negotiate on price.
 
If you're looking for a small, sporty car, why would you list a Mazda 5?

2011-Mazda5-MPV-01.jpg
 
It is a couple months away but what about the Alfa based Dart?

800px-2013_Dodge_Dart_--_2012_DC.JPG
 
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