Ferrari Leave Formula 1

Buktu

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And you don't think the Ferrari brand is strong enough to survive without F1?

Problem for them with the budget cap, is that now all of a sudden they can get beaten by new-comers. They have to stay at the front of the field, if they want to get anything from F1.

This is quite a power struggle. Another theory is that this will be a good chance to get rid of Mosley - if he causes Ferrari to leave, Mosley probably want get the backing he needs to get re-elected. That's all speculation, but there are a lot of aspects to this.
 

ViperVX

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We allready saw what happened to Honda. "We want more profit, F1 is eating too much money..." "Good bye."
I can see why FIA wants to have more teams that are depending on F1. Teams that are in F1 for racing, teams that are defined by F1. Right now the majority of the teams are in F1 for the wrong reasons so to speak.

Frank Williams said it best.
"Stepping out from F1 is not even an option for us. F1 is what we do."
That is why I say Ferrari is only bluffing. Only factory teams don't need F1. BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Renault.
F1 is a business, i.e. about profits for every participant, that may include actual profits from FIA payments, related media coverage etc. If some of the major teams pull out (Ferrari - 50% of F1 audience, Toyota, Renault with Alonso, BMW with Kubica, McLaren with Hamilton), it will lose over 80% of the audience in a giffy. Think about Grand-Prix attendence, without Ferrari and Alonso...

More than that, those "Teams" have all the power and money to create alternative championship, and they won't have to share a dime with Bernie or Capital Grp, so even if it's half as popular as F1 they still win (as their income share from F1 is 47% devided).
 
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-Cpt. J.-

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And you don't think the Ferrari brand is strong enough to survive without F1?
Ferrari will not pull out of F1. They could survive withut it, sure. But they will not pull out of F1. Not yet anyway. There is no alternative out there for F1, a sport Ferrari helped make.

F1 is a business, i.e. about profits for every participant, that may include actual profits from FIA payments, related media coverage etc. If some of the major teams pull out (Ferrari - 50% of F1 audience, Toyota, Renault with Alonso, BMW with Kubica, McLaren with Hamilton), it will lose over 80% of the audience in a giffy.Think about Grand-Prix attendence, without Ferrari and Alonso...


More than that, those "Teams" have all the power and money to create alternative championship, and they won't have to share a dime with Bernie or Capital Grp, so even if it's half as popular as F1 they still win (as their income share from F1 is 47% devided).
What is your source for these HUGELY exaggerated numbers? There must be a fan or two even in Ferraris fans who will think Ferrari has betrayed the sports if they leave. The teams that actually care about profittind in F1 will stay.That is why FIA is trying to force a budget cap.

It remains to be seen if they make another Racing Series. They threatened with that a long long time ago and it didn't happen.

There will be new teams in F1, new drivers and those will attract new fans.
 
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Buktu

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Yeah, most F1 fans will probably become attached to other teams, but you will see the ratings go down.

James Allen has some good points: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

Even if this is a bluff, it is in no way a good thing for the sport. When people think F1, they think Ferrari. FIA can't just be hardheaded and ignore this.. It's all fine and dandy if this is a bluff, but that's the thing about bluffing; you can never be sure of it. Ferrari could join other racing series, they could start competing with Audi and Peugeot in Le Mans..

Ferrari is as important for F1 as F1 is important for Ferrari. Both will manage without, ut none as well as they do now.
 

-Cpt. J.-

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In addition.

I think F1 allready has 2 sets of teams:
1.Ferrari
2. Everyone else

I have been actively following F1 for over a decade. Not as long as many of you I admit but in that time I have seen rules that passed because Ferrari wanted them. Rules that didn't pass because Ferrari didin't want them. This is shit I say. Ferrari gets away with whaterver the hell they want and they openly cheat. Where is the sporting behaviour? Tell me is there something wrong with a team that are afraid of being beaten by someone else? Somene new to the sport? I say yes.

Yeah, most F1 fans will probably become attached to other teams, but you will see the ratings go down.

James Allen has some good points: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

Even if this is a bluff, it is in no way a good thing for the sport. When people think F1, they think Ferrari. FIA can't just be hardheaded and ignore this.. It's all fine and dandy if this is a bluff, but that's the thing about bluffing; you can never be sure of it. Ferrari could join other racing series, they could start competing with Audi and Peugeot in Le Mans..

Ferrari is as important for F1 as F1 is important for Ferrari. Both will manage without, ut none as well as they do now.
I will read that article. I agree it would be a HUGE DISASTER if Ferrari pulled out of F1. No question about that. Ferrari however does not have the sports best in mind anymore. I think it would be good if someone would put Ferrari in their place because from time to time Ferrari is as fucking mad as Bernie and Max with their stupid demands.
 
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Sir Stiggington

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Jesus guys, you're taking this way to seriously. I expected this completely, it's all part of the game. It's pretty clear the new rules are gonna need to be revised, and this is what will make em do it. No way Ferrari are gonna withdraw...
 

ViperVX

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In addition.

I think F1 allready has 2 sets of teams:
1.Ferrari
2. Everyone else

I have been actively following F1 for over a decade. Not as long as many of you I admit but in that time I have seen rules that passed because Ferrari wanted them. Rules that didn't pass because Ferrari didin't want them. This is shit I say. Ferrari gets away with whaterver the hell they want and they openly cheat. Where is the sporting behaviour? Tell me is there something wrong with a team that are afraid of being beaten by someone else? Somene new to the sport? I say yes.
You're exactly right, if you take Ferrari of that list you are left with "number two", that's what F1's gonna be without Ferrari. I am with you on new teams though, i'd love to see Kyle Busch in F1.

Ferrari is the New York Yankess. You may hate them you may love them, there are scandals, cheating, rumors, they have all the fans, they are baseball.
 
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Twerp128

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Maybe I'm the only one. I think F1 needs a big overhaul, it's fucking high school drama, more akin to the 90210 than motor racing. There is no passing, there is no showboating, the commentary is boring, half the races are won in qualifying and the pits. Let's face it the sport is controlled completely by the sponsors and that four eyed midget.

I've been watching F1 this year, seen every race. I've been drawn in by the rule changes, but mostly Brawn, Button, Branson, and Barichello, all of whom I have great respect for. I just wish someone would take the FIA by the scruff of the neck and bitch slap 'em. Rule changes wont fix F1.
 

Buktu

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What you have to keep in mind on this matter, is that this isn't just Ferrari not wanting the change. The current proposal isn't getting very much backing with anyone on the grid. Mostly because of the two-tier system of course, but Ferrari certainly isn't the only ones not happy about the changes.

I completely understand Ferrari, these are some radical changes that are in no way positive for them with their current budget in mind.

I think it is quite unfair, and frankly a bit childish to just go "Ferrari always gets it their way.. Fuck em". Their complaints are, in my opinion, legitimate, and the harsh reaction is merely a reaction to the harsh treatment they and the rest of the teams have recieved from FIA.
 

-Cpt. J.-

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What you have to keep in mind on this matter, is that this isn't just Ferrari not wanting the change. The current proposal isn't getting very much backing with anyone on the grid. Mostly because of the two-tier system of course, but Ferrari certainly isn't the only ones not happy about the changes.

I completely understand Ferrari, these are some radical changes that are in no way positive for them with their current budget in mind.

I think it is quite unfair, and frankly a bit childish to just go "Ferrari always gets it their way.. Fuck em". Their complaints are, in my opinion, legitimate, and the harsh reaction is merely a reaction to the harsh treatment they and the rest of the teams have recieved from FIA.
I think FIA is harsh because they need to do something NOW. Before the sport commits suicide because of ever growing spending.

This has several meanings in one. It means that they are looking into a legal challenge because they believe that ?binding contractual obligations? have been breached. These refer to a veto right which Ferrari negotiated into its deal when it broke ranks with the other manufacturers in early 2005 and signed up to stay in F1 until 2012.
This small "deal with the devil" is what fucks up F1 IMO.
FIA alone should be in charge of the rules or only the teams. It is unsporting to give one teams such privileges.

About the New York Yankees:Ya, that's why I think many Americans think that sport is crap too. Never watched a single match only what I have seen on TV. I might be wrong.
 

Buktu

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They do need to do something, but they need to do something WITH the teams, and not just force a set of rules upon them. They need backing from the teams - obviously, they're nothing without them.

They're allowed to negotiate hard, but riscing that both Ferrari and Toyota leaves the sport? Granted, Toyota might very well have left anyway.

I agree that something has to be done, but i don't agree with the way it has been done - and i certainly don't agree that the current possible consequences are worth it.
 

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I also heard that the whole planet had died of the swine flu.
And that Max Mosley makes everyone FOLLOW his STRICT rules or else team managers get SPANKED. (<- blatant sniff ripoff)

Oh sod off
 

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It is a bluff. Toyota may pull out, but this will simply be an excuse. At a push I can see Renault and BMW pulling out but again that will be for economic reasons and this will simply be an excuse. Every other team will still be competing next year.
It is a bluff for the moment, but the teams will stand strong on this bluff until Mosley backs down. If it all escalates, we might see this bluff transform into real action.


History repeats itself. Rematch of the FISA-FOCA war, here we come!
 
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-Cpt. J.-

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I also heard that the whole planet had died of the swine flu.
And that Max Mosley makes everyone FOLLOW his STRICT rules or else team managers get SPANKED. (<- blatant sniff ripoff)

Oh sod off
Thankyou for your productive input.

Buktu. Problem is, the extorting teams don't care so much about the races, they care about F1's market value much much more. Such teams do not want more competition on the grid. They want to be able to use 3 cars only to get more media coverage. :|

Ferrari only care about their history and I don't think a team should be allowed to win just because it has been on the grid for 60 years... it would not be the first team to leave F1. Biggest yes but not the first. Not the last. I find it amusing how Montezemole said "Arrogance is what is killing the season for Ferrari. We have to stop being arrogant." Here we are. Nice job setting an example Luca. :thumbsup:

In times like these desperate measures are needed if F1 is to survive at all. As I have said before. The budget cap will happen. Maybe not next year but in 2010/2011. It will probably be higher than 40M? and I think it will be mandatory for everyone.

I just hope FIA will not make another desperately foolish and stupid deal with Ferrari. If it comes to that I think it would be better to let the whole circus die.
 
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Walsh_e

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Formula One would be fine without Ferrari, Ferrari would survive without F1 and would probably go back to Le Mans. Ferrari's importance to the sport is over exaggerated, the sport was perfectly fine in the early 90's when Ferrari where utter crap, I doubt half the global audience watched 92/93 just to see Ferrari score a few podiums and finished over 50 points behind Benetton two years running!
 
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