Ferrari most important team in F1!

LoneWolf said:
If the most successful team in F1 can be considered 'shit', I wonder what words can be used to describe all the other teams?
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I won't say they are shit, but consider the other team's lengths of stay in F1 vs. Ferrari's and you get a massive sense of perspective on things.
 
Red_Bull said:
Well shit in a sense that they are the most unethical team in the sport.
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Unethical? Even more so than possessing another team's technical data? Even more unethical than appealing against cars that finished before yourself just because they beat you? (So you can win the championship like a cheap bastard? And no, the cold fuel didn't aid them in anyway and Kimi finished first!)

Answer that...

And how has Ferrari been unethical?
 
Ferrari leaked the technical data to McLaren. And the FIA should enforce the rules, right?
 
TomCat said:
Ferrari leaked the technical data to McLaren. And the FIA should enforce the rules, right?
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Are you seriously saying that Ferrari willingly gave a 700-page book containing all of Ferrari's technical data to McLaren?

And anyway, it was the actions of one Nigel Stepney that causes all the row...

Yes, of course the FIA should enforce the rules...
 
Gman333-X-ferrari said:
Are you seriously saying that Ferrari willingly gave a 700-page book containing all of Ferrari's technical data to McLaren?
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I just think it's only fair that Ferrari be held responsible for the actions of their employees, in the same way McLaren was held responsible for the actions of a few of theirs.
 
TomCat said:
I just think it's only fair that Ferrari be held responsible for the actions of their employees, in the same way McLaren was held responsible for the actions of a few of theirs.
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Yes but the thing is that McLaren knew of these "actions", and Ferrari discovered this sabotage, just in time to report it. And that's why McLaren got fined 50 million pounds...

Well, that's what the FIA ruled anyway...

I mean, at that stage Nigel Stephnay was basically a McLaren spy, so why should Ferrari get fined? :blink:
 
I don't want to get into this debate again, but I do think Ferrari should receive some sort of punishment for their involvement. It was one of their employees that was responsible for the entire incident, mind you. And I still find it hard to believe that someone could just walk out of Ferrari HQ with 700 pages of confidential secret docs and Ferrari not know. Don't you think they should, I don't know, keep track of that shit?

Just a thought.
 
TomCat said:
I don't want to get into this debate again, but I do think Ferrari should receive some sort of punishment for their involvement. It was one of their employees that was responsible for the entire incident, mind you. And I still find it hard to believe that someone could just walk out of Ferrari HQ with 700 pages of confidential secret docs and Ferrari not know. Don't you think they should, I don't know, keep track of that shit?

Just a thought.
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I still don't see the logic of Ferrari getting penalised because a "McLaren spy" was stealing Ferrari's technical data...

And anyway, even Ron Dennis knew of this incident when Alonso threatened him with this. We can clearly see why McLaren deserves the infringement, but why Ferrari? It was the victim...

And spies usually work inconspicuously... o_O And they caught him...
 
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You can call Nigel Stepney a "McLaren spy" all you want, but that doesn't make it true, or change the fact that he was a Ferrari employee.

Ferrari should be held responsible for the actions of their employees.
 
TomCat said:
You can call Nigel Stepney a "McLaren spy" all you want, but that doesn't make it true, or change the fact that he was a Ferrari employee.

Ferrari should be held responsible for the actions of their employees.
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Well that's your opinion, and you are entitled to one... =/

So if someone from Mclaren gave some technical data to Ferrari and this gives Ferrari an "edge", should McLaren be infringed? "
(Hypothetically speaking)
 
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But it isn't the first time it's happened. Toyota managed to obtain a good chunk of Ferrari F2003-GA data which they put to good use in their own vehicle. Ferrari need to clean their house up a bit. I know they can't confiscate every laptop from employees after 5:30pm, but are working conditions so bad there that employees feel the need to not only quit the team, but take the design secrets with them?

Unethical? Even more so than possessing another team's technical data? Even more unethical than appealing against cars that finished before yourself just because they beat you? (So you can win the championship like a cheap bastard? And no, the cold fuel didn't aid them in anyway and Kimi finished first!)
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Yes. I liked the whole 'win the championship like a cheap bastard' thing! Remind me again how Ferrari won the 2007 constructors championship? And don't try and tell me that the McLaren mp4-22 incorporated Ferrari designs because it didn't. Also, cold fuel probably didn't aid those teams, but it didn't have to. If you're outside the regulations, expect to be punished. McLaren are merely trying to hold the FIA to its own ruling and ensure the sport doesn't become a complete joke with an incompetent governing body.

So if someone from Mclaren gave some technical data to Ferrari and this gives Ferrari an "edge", should McLaren be infringed? "
(Hypothetically speaking)
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It depends what the nature of the technical data is. That sort of thing happens all the time with the transfers of employees from team to team. You can't stop it and teams accept it as a recognised practice - hell, its what the team hired the employee for in the first place. I just think though, that if McLaren were held accountable for the actions of one man, then so should Ferrari.
 
Red_Bull said:
But it isn't the first time it's happened. Toyota managed to obtain a good chunk of Ferrari F2003-GA data which they put to good use in their own vehicle. Ferrari need to clean their house up a bit. I know they can't confiscate every laptop from employees after 5:30pm, but are working conditions so bad there that employees feel the need to not only quit the team, but take the design secrets with them?

Yes. I liked the whole 'win the championship like a cheap bastard' thing! Remind me again how Ferrari won the 2007 constructors championship? And don't try and tell me that the McLaren mp4-22 incorporated Ferrari designs because it didn't. Also, cold fuel probably didn't aid those teams, but it didn't have to. If you're outside the regulations, expect to be punished. McLaren are merely trying to hold the FIA to its own ruling and ensure the sport doesn't become a complete joke with an incompetent governing body.

It depends what the nature of the technical data is. That sort of thing happens all the time with the transfers of employees from team to team. You can't stop it and teams accept it as a recognised practice - hell, its what the team hired the employee for in the first place. I just think though, that if McLaren were held accountable for the actions of one man, then so should Ferrari.
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So how does that justify you claiming that Ferrari is unethical? They won the constructors championship... Yes, it was because McLaren got fined and Ferrari were the next team on the board, so how does that make Ferrari unethical? (Being second is unethical?)

The data taken from Ferrari just shows how everyone trusts each other in the team. They're a loyal bunch of people and Stephney just happen to be a 'thorn' that wanted more. I mean, he could have been paid thousands for that technical data.

Working conditions are bad at Ferrari? :lol:

Oh, what would you call the relationships between people at McLaren at the moment? :lol:

Were working conditions so bad at McLaren that a driver didn't even talk to his team principle DURING a race weekend? Are team ethics so bad that chief team members knowingly had the Ferrari data and it took a threat to the team principle to make it public that the team had this data? Also, are the team ethics so bad as they need to steal another team's data by falsely giving hope to Stephney that he can maybe come to their team.

So, when Ferrari goes to the FIA to seek justice it's just being a "whining pussy" that the FIA'll 'always' favour? What do you call McLaren , appealing for the other team's infringement just because they beat Hamilton. I mean, the season's over, get over it already...

I agree that the rules and justice have to be served. If a team infringes the rules, they need to be punished. Williams and Toyota need to be punished for their non-advantageous fuel temperatures - in the same way as McLaren was punished for possessing another team's technical data.

So why does Ferrari need to be punished? Because one man had a double-deal? (Whereas all the main heads at McLaren knew about the data?)

Trust me, there are details in this story that you or I will never know, and I'm sure the FIA has made the right decision after seeing all that's happened.
 
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I am very happy that Kimi won the title. But McLaren's punishment was way over the top, and if they had been punished then Ferrari should have been punished for winning in Melbourne with an illegal car (as should every other team that contravened the rules).

"Maybe not the F50"??? F50 is probably the best and purist Ferrari there is.
 
Necx0 said:
I am very happy that Kimi won the title. But McLaren's punishment was way over the top, and if they had been punished then Ferrari should have been punished for winning in Melbourne with an illegal car (as should every other team that contravened the rules).

"Maybe not the F50"??? F50 is probably the best and purist Ferrari there is.
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Fifty million pounds, for a team such as McLaren is not a substantial amount, even though it will affect their operations...

The F50, to me, is the least appealing Ferrari. It's quite like the "original" Carrera GT (which I dislike)...

It's my opinion so don't take it so harshly... 8)

(BTW I think you meant 'purest', not 'purist'. ;))
 
The original Carrera GT??? I don't understand.

You are dead right on my poor grammar. I knew it didn't look right but couldn't pick it.

Still not happy about the McLaren penalty but totally over it and let's move on. There are certain teams that F1 NEEDS though I think. Williams, McLaren and Ferrari being the 3 main ones.
 
Necx0 said:
The original Carrera GT??? I don't understand.

You are dead right on my poor grammar. I knew it didn't look right but couldn't pick it.

Still not happy about the McLaren penalty but totally over it and let's move on. There are certain teams that F1 NEEDS though I think. Williams, McLaren and Ferrari being the 3 main ones.
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Yep, we need all those teams, they're what make Formula 1 what it is. (E.g Without Subaru, Audi or even Citroen WRC wouldn't be what it is today...)

:lol: I consider the Carrera GT to be like a refined version of the Ferrari F50... In my opinion they're quite similar (Both convertibles, BIG engines, ridiculous spoilers etc. :lol:)...

I love the F50 way more than the 'clinical' GT however. The F50 has more passion in it's design. (And, it's a Ferrari!;)) :p

Yea, lets move on...roll on 2008...
 
I don't understand the "original" part though, implies there was an updated Carrera GT. I won't start an argument just because for me the Carrera GT is simply the great automotive creation around.

They are both quite similar though, F1 derived engine, massively stiff, kinda scary handling. Fabulous both of them.

Would be nice if we still had Jordan or Tyrell or something.
 
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