Fight of the day: Porsche vs Ken Livingstone

prizrak

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Quite frankly, if you've bought a Porche and all you do is drive around London in it, you're 1) a twat 2) deserving of a 25-pound a day surcharge.

Also, how many of you own a Porsche, or further, any car that emits over 220gm's/km? And of those that do, how many of you live in London? Exactly.


I've been to London many times, both by car, train, bus and plane. Frankly, I have no idea why you would choose the first option. Driving in London, especially in a sportscar/SUV makes no sense whatsoever.
I suspect my A4 would emit over that, haven't really looked into it but it would make sense.

Granted I do not drive in London I drive in it's sister city on the other side of the pond :)

Does anyone have emissions data for some common sedans? I would suspect most of them would be over the limit.
 

teeb

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Quite frankly, if you've bought a Porche and all you do is drive around London in it, you're 1) a twat 2) deserving of a 25-pound a day surcharge.

Also, how many of you own a Porsche, or further, any car that emits over 220gm's/km? And of those that do, how many of you live in London? Exactly.


I've been to London many times, both by car, train, bus and plane. Frankly, I have no idea why you would choose the first option. Driving in London, especially in a sportscar/SUV makes no sense whatsoever.
The problem is that it's not only Porsches and Ferraris that will get hit by this charge. Certain 7-seat people carriers (non-4wd) will, too.

As I said before, I think it's madness to drive into central London when there's all the public transport available. But for some people driving's the only option, be it due to a long commute, inaccessibility of where they live, timing, or whatever. And it seems unfair to tax people on the school run with ?25 a day just because they have to carry a whole family...

Also, how many of you own a Porsche, or further, any car that emits over 220gm's/km? And of those that do, how many of you live in London? Exactly.
Table of car makers' average CO2 output.

Bearing in mind those are the averages for each, that means there's gonna be a lot of cars in most manufacturers' ranges that are over the limit.
 
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klutch

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From that list, the only offenders:

Lexus 230
Chrysler 239
Land Rover 275
Jeep 308

No surprises there.

If you need to justify your Q7 as a family hauler, driving through Central London, you can bloody well pay that fine. No-one needs a Q7 to haul a family, thats just ludicrous. Families in the UK don't have 5 kids; its not freakin' Alabama. This is more pointed at getting massively oversized cars out of the immensely crowded downtown core.
 

prizrak

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From that list, the only offenders:

Lexus 230
Chrysler 239
Land Rover 275
Jeep 308

No surprises there.

If you need to justify your Q7 as a family hauler, driving through Central London, you can bloody well pay that fine. No-one needs a Q7 to haul a family, thats just ludicrous. Families in the UK don't have 5 kids; its not freakin' Alabama. This is more pointed at getting massively oversized cars out of the immensely crowded downtown core.
Kids come with quite a bit of stuff with them :)

Seems like full sized sedans would not be over the limit
For example, the A6 1.9TDI PD 130 manual emits 154g/km CO2 against 164g/km from the Mercedes E220 CDI; 169g/km from the new Volvo S80 DS; and 179g/km from the BMW 525D.
Source
 
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klutch

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I think a 'full size' sedan is infinitely more practical in a city like London than something the size of a Q7, an X5, or a Benz R-Class. Yes, kids come with baggage, but a full-size family can easily fit in any of the aforementioned diesels just as easily as the carbon-spewing monster SUV's.
 

techfire1

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Apparently a 2 litre vauxhall zafira is included in this list, which is absolutely ridiculous. I don't have too much issue with X5 drivers getting charged, or even porsche or ferrari drivers (non-classics) but a piddly 2 litre people carrier is absurd. If it's full of people then the CO2-per-person is gonna be even lower than any hippy smart car. Luckily if your car is pre-2001 and under 3000cc you're ok, so an old supra or skyline is still good ;)
 

teeb

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From that list, the only offenders:

Lexus 230
Chrysler 239
Land Rover 275
Jeep 308

No surprises there.
Hello, please read the bit where the link is "an average figure from every model sold by a manufacturer."

So for example, Subaru's at 215. That means just less than half Sub's cars are over, and the rest are under, that figure. The table doesn't mean that Lexus, Chrysler, LR and Jeep are the only people who are going to get fined.

Example! The Ford Galaxy 2.3 Duratec gives out 235 g/km, meaning it's in the ?25 per day group. But Ford on average only gives out 162 g/km, according to the table...
 

Flynn

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Annoyingly, when I see him on TV Ken appears relatively likeable, and he's also quite funny, if you watch him on Have I Got News For You.
That is so irritating isn't it? Like that Steven Ladyman who was on Top Gear a couple years back, he was really nice guy but the adjudicator of all the car taxes. I really think we could do with one of those "reasonable and prudent" laws here in the U.K. like some states of America have.

On the subject in hand though, I want Livingston to be beaten purely for the matter of principle rather than anything else. I am not fond of lots of capitalism's elements but it is the best out of all the other systems and I want them to hand him his balls on a plate over this matter.
 

BlaRo

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LONDON CHALLENGES PORSCHE DROP

It was announced today that Transport for London is to challenge Porsche over its attempts to lower the Cayenne SUV by 24mm. The authority responsible for transport policy in the capital said it was ?disproportionate? for the German car maker to attempt such a radical ride height reduction for its new Cayenne GTS model and that it intended to seek a judicial review on the matter.

?A massive suspension drop is quite simply ludicrous,? said TfL spokesman Papeline Norks. ?There is no need to have people driving around this city in a huge 4?4? that doesn?t have sufficient suspension travel to cope with the utterly terrible quality of our roads?.

TfL says if it does not receive a satisfactory response from Porsche it will go to the courts to seek an order forcing Porsche to raise its latest off road model. ?This sudden, unfair lowering will affect families in particular,? said Mr Norks. ?Specifically, those buying a large 4?4 because they expect it to have a soft, comfortable ride?.

However, not everyone agrees with the opposition to Porsche?s lowering plans. ?I think the Cayenne decrease is entirely correct,? said Action Jackson of Dab-Of-Oppo magazine. ?Camber change is the biggest threat currently facing the human race and something needs to be done to stop large SUVs wallowing and lurching?.

Sniff Petrol was going to ring London Mayor Ken Livingstone but he was probably too busy being a cat-voiced, money snatching cockbag.
Sniff Petrol

:lmao:
 

SoxXpupPeT

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wow what a tard-nugget. Go Porsche! i hope everyone goes that way but i know most car manufacturers wont.
 

vikiradTG2007

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BUMP!!!!! Red Ken's reply:

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/2686/

Porsche vs Red Ken: Round Two
Told you it was going to get messy. When Porsche asked for a judicial review of Mayor Livingstone's new London congestion charge proposals a couple of weeks ago, we didn't think Red Ken would react too kindly.

And, predictably, Transport for London and Livingstone have rejected Porsche's request for changes to the proposed charges. That means Porsche will definitely file a request for judicial review, so we could be set for the juiciest court battle since Kramer vs Kramer or, erm, that bit at the end of My Cousin Vinny.

"The new ?25 charge will have no meaningful impact on congestion," says a Porsche spokesman. "TfL's own figures show the anticipated CO2 emissions savings in a year could be equivalent to less than four hours of emissions from Heathrow."

Ken's not impressed, though. At a press meeting yesterday, he stated: "Porsche should focus their attentions on cutting CO2 emissions from the cars they produce, rather than pursuing this pointless legal action which we will vigorously contest."

He also denied claims by mayoral rival Boris Johnson (and most of the British media) that he is planning to extend the current congestion zone. It'll all come out in court, as they say.
 

H0nzik

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What I just don't get is, how is it possible that the inhabitants of a region with the highest GDP per capita in the EU can elect a communist as their mayor. It is completely unthinkable, that a left wing party would ever win the elections in Prague.
 

DTMracer

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What I don't get is, if this is a "congestion charge", then why is it not based on vehicle size instead of emissions?

With that CO2 limit, many family cars like the mondeo would fall foul.
 

Susurrate

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If given the choice in my town between Ken Livingston and Boris Johnson I's vote for Boris purely on the merits of his hair.
 
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