Follow Up: GM OK's Renault/Nissan alliance talks...

un-dee

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If a french company buys GM they'll stop giving a little shit about american/other workers, cut about 40.000 jobs and kill 3-5 brands. Saab and Opel wouldnt survive that i guess (even being the most profitable ones).
 

BlaRo

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jayhawk said:
Un-Dee said:
If Renault/Nissan really do this they are completely insane. Really.
Thats what people said to Renault in 1999. You and others need to read up on Carlos Ghosen. He took Nissan from BILLIONS in the red to the most profitable car company on the planet.

If this merger happens, it will benefit all; I just cannot see a downside to this.
Ghosn is a smart, clever guy who gets kudos for rescuing one of my favorite car companies, but how the hell are they going to deal with the 11-headed hydra that is one of the most ineptly managed companies on Earth? I doubt he's going to have the same success he did with Nissan, and this is going to give the elitists like Thomas "GM SELLS CRACK LOL" Friedman a ton to blather about how GM's going to die a painful, hilarious death, YAY! :roll:

Plus, GM has a bad rep already. Pretty much every new car from them is met with "ZOMG IT SUKS GM NEDS 2 BULD BETTAR CARZ", so being owned by the French and the Japanese is going to keep the anti-GM crowd going for decades.

Either way, you know what this means for us: more badge engineering! (Not that it's a bad thing, imagine if the Renaultsport Clio made it over here as a Pontiac or something. We can dream...:p)
 

YF19pilot

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If the Clio replaced the Daewoo--I mean Chevy Aveo-- I'd be happy. Really, GM needs to bolster their image. They do have some good cars, but too many people are reluctant to see that. Kind of like how Hyundai's quality is getting better, but many still remember the crap cars they use to make.


Knowing how much the American public knows or gives a crap about cars, they probably wouldn't notice. Any true GM fan who knows the business might be upset about the merger at first, but they'll get past it, realizing the benefits for it.

Just as long as they don't kill off SAAB, I'll be happy (though I do feel that they could slim down a few companies). Though maybe if they were to make Saturn the Renault brand...don't change the looks, just the badges...and maybe if they would get rid of that ugly ass Uplander van, maybe use the Espace instead...


Yup, this merger could really benefit GM...
 

Wizegui

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The Espace isn't exactly pretty either. Also, it would be too small to compete with the domestic and foreign vans with huge 3.8L V6 engines. It would be great to see a few Renault models in the Saturn lineups. I hope they won't get rid of Saab since its my favourite GM division.

-duders
 

HuevosRancheros

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i hope they pull it off. it is the only way to long term sucess (survival?) for GM. as far as fan boys go, they won't make a dent in sales. look at what zee gremans have done for the dodge boys
 

thedguy

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triumph said:
AHHH
I've just pictured a clio with a Z06 engine 8) :lol:
In the back! The most you could hope for is the LS2/LS6.

Honestly I see this as being good for all 3 companies. Firstly turning GM into a profitable company again, and if they get their market share back here in the US, that'll make them very profitable. That will only help Nissan and Renault.

If Ghosn can take charge at GM and do his thing there, I can see GM finally ditching their 45 year old v6 engines and using that nice hardly used "global" v6. Perhaps even make Daewoo's worth buying and having a Chevy badge on them.
All GM needs is someone with some power in the company to let the Engineer's loose. We used to make some of the best looking cars in the world, and no we have chassis engineer's that can compete with the rest of them, just combine the 2 damn it!1

This can also give Renault a way back into the US. If Renault's name is plastered on anything that says "GM turn around" the buying public may not think of Renault's as a bunch of Surrender Monkey POS'. Or they could just use badge engineering.
 

jetsetter

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Who ordered a double dose of irony? Just before the Fourth of July two big headlines hit Detroit. First, investor/speculator Kirk Kerkorian touted attempts to get General Motors and Renault/Nissan to discuss an ?alliance.? And the German chairman of DaimlerChrysler, Dieter Zetsche, started appearing as frontman in TV commercials for Chrysler and Dodge.

One is tempted to sing ?three cheers for the red, white and blue,? but those are the colors of the French flag, too. Renault is partially owned by the French government and is, in turn, the dominant partner in the Renault/Nissan duo. The prospect of an ?alliance? (a bad choice of words when talking cars, Renault and America in the same breath) with GM would be daunting except that, as analyst Doug Scott from GFK Automotive told Automotive News, ?...it?s almost science fiction.?

Nonfiction: Kerkorian realized more than $125 million on paper on the immediate bounce of 8.6 percent on GM share values. The only real action was that he released, in public, his own letters to the boards of both Renault/Nissan and GM, proposing that the French and Japanese firms each take a 10 percent stake in the world?s biggest automaker. When both boards replied, in essence, ?Hmmmm,? stock speculators went into a tizzy.

There?s no question Carlos Ghosn, chair of Renault/Nissan, is the industry?s premier turnaround artist, the first guy you?d call if GM was hiring. But GM chair Rick Wagoner, remember, got a vote of confidence this spring. Hiring Ghosn, or even following his model for turnarounds, isn?t the same as merging with Renault.

When his Tracinda Corp. held a big share of Chrysler Corp., Kerkorian was good at generating ?news? that would bounce his stock value upward. But when a real merger took place, it was a shocker negotiated behind closed doors, not orchestrated on the front pages.

Which brings us to Zetsche. He is appearing in ads to emphasize that Chrysler is not a member of a ?struggling Detroit Big Three? but part of a global concern. Point taken. But Ford and GM were pioneers of the whole ?global? approach to the auto business. When Chrysler joined Daimler, the former had no European presence and the latter had no mass-market penetration here.

No such ?synergy? for GM and Renault. The GM group outsells Renault in Europe. And still has the lion?s share (though shrinking) of the American market, which Renault fled. So what?s in it for anyone besides the guy engineering the news?

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060707/FREE/307070001/1024
 

thedguy

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I find these more interesting:

Nonfiction: Kerkorian realized more than $125 million on paper on the immediate bounce of 8.6 percent on GM share values. The only real action was that he released, in public, his own letters to the boards of both Renault/Nissan and GM, proposing that the French and Japanese firms each take a 10 percent stake in the world?s biggest automaker. When both boards replied, in essence, ?Hmmmm,? stock speculators went into a tizzy.
When his Tracinda Corp. held a big share of Chrysler Corp., Kerkorian was good at generating ?news? that would bounce his stock value upward. But when a real merger took place, it was a shocker negotiated behind closed doors, not orchestrated on the front pages.
 

Byte

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I say they put Ghosn in charge for a year or so. Afterwards, GM will be 1/8th of its previous size but will be profitable and will produce some decent cars! After all it's Ghosn we have to thank for being able to looking forward to a new Skyline!
 

niteriyder

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I don't see why GM and Toyota just cant merge...its makes more sense...two juggernaut automakers joining forces...oh the destruction they would rain over the market would simply be catastrophic !

LS7 powered Supras, and Hrybrid Impalas...i can go on and on
 

thedguy

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niteriyder said:
I don't see why GM and Toyota just cant merge...its makes more sense...two juggernaut automakers joining forces...oh the destruction they would rain over the market would simply be catastrophic !

LS7 powered Supras, and Hrybrid Impalas...i can go on and on
You'd think something like this would happen with Toyota being a major technical partner with GM. Though I don't see any Toyota's taking on pushrod power except in Nascar.
 

mmap

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There was an interesting interview with Wagoner last night on CNBC and even though he was talking about how he will enter the negotiations with Renault with an open mind. You could read between the lines that this is extremely unlikely to lead to a merger of any kind...

Dealing with the French government (or Ghosn it would appear) seemed like something he was not too keen on.

And they bery conveniently showed the stock price development on the right moments so that it appeared as f that could be the only reason this is even debated at all (like thedguy pointed out)
 

ishigakisensei

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thedguy said:
You'd think something like this would happen with Toyota being a major technical partner with GM. Though I don't see any Toyota's taking on pushrod power except in Nascar.
And remember that Toyota's slogan is Moving Forward so they would never resort to horse'n-buggy technology when they are doing fine being innovators. Waggoner knows that he'll be fired if such a merger ever materialized. This deal is all show & no go.
 

niteriyder

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ishigakisensei said:
thedguy said:
You'd think something like this would happen with Toyota being a major technical partner with GM. Though I don't see any Toyota's taking on pushrod power except in Nascar.
And remember that Toyota's slogan is Moving Forward so they would never resort to horse'n-buggy technology when they are doing fine being innovators. Waggoner knows that he'll be fired if such a merger ever materialized. This deal is all show & no go.

If "moving forward" is about making cars that give you a sense of what it would feel like to be dead, then I'll pass... :mrgreen:

LS1 POWER FOR TEH WIN
 

thedguy

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niteriyder said:
ishigakisensei said:
thedguy said:
You'd think something like this would happen with Toyota being a major technical partner with GM. Though I don't see any Toyota's taking on pushrod power except in Nascar.
And remember that Toyota's slogan is Moving Forward so they would never resort to horse'n-buggy technology when they are doing fine being innovators. Waggoner knows that he'll be fired if such a merger ever materialized. This deal is all show & no go.

If "moving forward" is about making cars that give you a sense of what it would feel like to be dead, then I'll pass... :mrgreen:

LS1 POWER FOR TEH WIN
Lol. Their current lineup including Lexus, are rather depressing. GM could be onto something by 2010, we'll see, until then, atleast Toyota's have a better record for Build quality and reliability.
 
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