GM Closing WY Stamping Plant, More (Months after union extorts higher wages)

thedguy

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I've talked to quite a few of my UPS guys and they all say the job sucks but the pay is nice and only reason why they stay.

Oh and here is a great way to secure jobs, call the company you want to bring jobs back to you the enemy and threaten to shut them down:
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/07/caw-union-head-buzz-hargrove-threatens-to-take-gm-down-in-08-if/

How about they just move to northern mexico and take advantage of NAFTA and not pay any import duties on vehicles/parts built just over the border in Juarez? Oh wait, Ford's already been doing that.
 

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Both, but increasing union demands is why Boeing keeps moving more and more production out of the US.

On top of that, the unions at Boeing at least build the airplanes right because 1: *They* might have to fly on them, and 2: Manufacturer quality defect in aircraft = huge lawsuit = union gets sued.
 

GRtak

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Tell that to the people who get attacked by union thugs when crossing the picket lines, while the police stand by, witness the whole thing, and DO NOTHING.

The police in the union states NEVER arrest union thugs for strike violence - but whoa, if you try to defend yourself against a union thug, well, you're instantly charged with inciting a riot and carted off to jail.

I have seen a few union workers arrested at a strike, so you are wrong (they were released after paying a fine). You are stringing together a bunch of streotyped stories.
 

Spectre

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I have seen a few union workers arrested at a strike, so you are wrong (they were released after paying a fine). You are stringing together a bunch of streotyped stories.
There's still a light scar on my ribcage from where I was "given" a brick by a union thug while crossing the lines during the UPS strike. The perp was NOT arrested.

Imagine that.
 

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You crossed the line yourself didnt you?
That said I dont recognize any part of your weird labour market from my own reality, it appears to be truly fucked up. "Working together" is not a phrase the employers and the union understands?
 

Spectre

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You crossed the line yourself didnt you?
That said I dont recognize any part of your weird labour market from my own reality, it appears to be truly fucked up. "Working together" is not a phrase the employers and the union understands?
Yes, I did cross the line - but there's still no justification for throwing bricks.

And no, American unions do NOT understand "working together". American unions view their employers as opponents or enemies, as their own documentation and propaganda reveals.

Also, unions make up a small but disproportionately noisy part of the labor market. Only 7% (and dropping) of the American population is part of a union. The rest of the market works on regular old supply and demand.
 
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tigger

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That said I dont recognize any part of your weird labour market from my own reality, it appears to be truly fucked up. "Working together" is not a phrase the employers and the union understands?
Some unions seem to be able to work with their employers just fine. There are a few though, the UAW being the prime example, who could seem to care less if their industry goes under.
 

thedguy

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How about workers at Boeing are they union or non union?
just curious
Several of my relatives worked for the various aircraft builders over the years, and all of them hated the union. Most of all because they encouraged their membership to vote Democrat when they wanted to kill government projects that would put them out of jobs, where voting republican would equal work.

Oh and Spectre, 1950 is about right for when unions were becoming a bit useless, my grandfather began his hatred of the machine workers union right around then when the machine shop he worked in went from being a great environment where the owner gave a large percentage of profits to the employee's as bonus' at the end of the year to having no bonus', no over time allowed, less holiday's off, having to pay the union to work in the shop, and no increased benefits. I never saw the man really get angry, until something on the news relating to the UAW demanding more money came on.

Some unions seem to be able to work with their employers just fine. There are a few though, the UAW being the prime example, who could seem to care less if their industry goes under.
If you look at some of the people that have come to power at the UAW you'll find that many of them were socialists/communists and wanted to use the UAW to achieve a communist revolution in the US. Of course so far all of them have gotten into power and saw the perks of being numbero uno and changed their minds.
 
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kaBOOMn

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I really didn't want to get into this thread, but I'll bite...and probably get eaten by the scarey Seppo's...

I think this is more a case of balance....Unions exist because some employers are pricks and Industry groups exist because some unions are pricks. Then again this IS an Australian centric view and I'm not exactly sure if it would translate over to American values and their current business environment.

Examples like minimum job times, wages vs inflation etc etc (you could go on for years about both sides)

It does make me a little sad that sometimes both parties don't see eye to eye to the detriment of the said company/brand. For example some unions don't realize that the value of labor in some industries does go down over time, and some manufacturers don't realize that even with advances in technology the job remains as labor intensive as it always was.

Technically I should be Anti union, since I've worked in small businesses all my life, and at this rate will probably own one in the next 18 months. However I do see benefit a lot of the services that unions do provide, mostly in the social area.

However this whole system falls down when politics gets involved. When it turns into a "Left vs Right" argument (or is this what people with political aspirations try to label the process as?)

My view is that unions are a essential part of a Industrial society, however they do have to exist in a harmony with the business they work with. Same goes with the businesses and BOTH sides need to have a good grip of what is going on in the real world...I think this is the problem with America (this line sadly can be twisted which ever way you want depending on your views)

.
..
...

I think I'll put on my flame suit now....
 

Spectre

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Ironically, this was on Edmunds' InsideLine homepage today:



The article attached to it: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=117490/pageId=151142

This is one of the trucks the WY plant made stampings for.

So much for union quality.

Technically I should be Anti union, since I've worked in small businesses all my life, and at this rate will probably own one in the next 18 months. However I do see benefit a lot of the services that unions do provide, mostly in the social area.
Tell you what. When you open or take ownership of that business, make sure you only hire union labor. See what you get. Perhaps your Australian unions really are that different.

However this whole system falls down when politics gets involved. When it turns into a "Left vs Right" argument (or is this what people with political aspirations try to label the process as?)
No, while the members of the unions may be of any political bent, the unions themselves tend to push leftist Democrat candidates, and they encourage their members to vote Dem/leftsist. And most of them, apparently, do.
 
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GRtak

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The asshole that threw the brick should of went to jail.

What does the tranmission failure have to do with the plant that made body dies for the truck? Sounds to me like this was a transmission that was on the shelf (4L60e) that was not capable of doing the job behind the big engine. That would be an engineers/ managment decision. I also wonder how many parts in the transmission are made in non-GM/ non-union plants. that has been a big problem that many of you don't know about. GM has moved many small/sub parts out of house at the same time it has reduced it's quality control efforts. Not very smart.

And where is the scan of the "janitors" paycheck?
 

Spectre

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He hasn't come by to pick up his parts yet. I called him at home yesterday and he was drunk off his ass. (Has nothing to do with his UAW membership nor am I implying that they're all drunks though many are - he just likes to drink early and often once he gets off work.) Can't scan what's not here yet.

If he doesn't pick them up tomorrow, I'll be delivering them to him on Monday. I should be able to get a pic or a scan then.

***

The 6.0L in that truck doesn't have a 4L60E, it has a 4L70E - the hardened and upgraded 60E. That should be fine for that weight and power of car - I'm putting the non-electronic equivalent in my car, an upgraded 700R4. (Completely rebuilt to better than factory specs, plus upgrades - of course).

Even before the events you postulate, though, premature transmission failure due to poor quality assembly is nothing new for GM trucks.
 

kaBOOMn

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Ironically, this was on Edmunds' InsideLine homepage today:



The article attached to it: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=117490/pageId=151142

This is one of the trucks the WY plant made stampings for.

So much for union quality.
What do metal stampings (I assume they are body components) have to do with transmission problems?

Honestly I do wonder if its down to the assembly practices or the actual design to begin with? I'm doing a Industrial Design (at the end of 3rd year atm) degree at the moment and one point we get hammered into our heads is that the quallity isn't in the assembly, its how you design it to start with. (taking into account costs etc etc)

You can have the best assembly people in the world but if the design sucks (eg material, clearances etc etc) the final product is still going to suck.

Looking at quite a few GM products, the detail design does suck, for example split lines on surfaces, removing too much aluminum on housings to save money. Do you get the picture?

Tell you what. When you open or take ownership of that business, make sure you only hire union labor. See what you get. Perhaps your Australian unions really are that different.
Unfortunatly for this conversation its a bit of a moot point, since you really don't have unions in the area of old Italian race car prep/restoration and low volume car fabrication :lol: ....1 extra person and thats it.

No, while the members of the unions may be of any political bent, the unions themselves tend to push leftist Democrat candidates, and they encourage their members to vote Dem/leftsist. And most of them, apparently, do.
Well this really isn't the political forum, and I'm not too familar with US politics outside from what I read in our local news and the political section in Fark.com :) So I really can't comment on that.

Still considering how the US is going at the moment, maybe going a little to the left wouldn't hurt? Remember politics is meant to be about balance and compromise with the ideal somewhere in the middle....maybe you've gone too far one way?
 

Spectre

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What do metal stampings (I assume they are body components) have to do with transmission problems?
Absolutely nothing. I just threw it in there as a tangentally related item so I could put a funny picture in this thread. The tangent is that it's the same truck that they built stampings for - so quality issues might not be unexpected.

Honestly I do wonder if its down to the assembly practices or the actual design to begin with? I'm doing a Industrial Design (at the end of 3rd year atm) degree at the moment and one point we get hammered into our heads is that the quallity isn't in the assembly, its how you design it to start with. (taking into account costs etc etc)

You can have the best assembly people in the world but if the design sucks (eg material, clearances etc etc) the final product is still going to suck.

Looking at quite a few GM products, the detail design does suck, for example split lines on surfaces, removing too much aluminum on housings to save money. Do you get the picture?
Yes, of course I do - but here's a point that invalidates it.

You know the Ford Focus Mk I, of course.

Well, Ford brought the entire design over from Europe, completely unmodified. The only difference is that they had UAW workers build it.

What resulted was the MOST recalled car in American history.

No design changes. No materials changes, parts came from the same suppliers but different factories, all to the same standards.

Seeing as how the only thing that changed was the people assembling it, please explain how cheap materials or poor design was responsible?

Unfortunatly for this conversation its a bit of a moot point, since you really don't have unions in the area of old Italian race car prep/restoration and low volume car fabrication :lol: ....1 extra person and thats it.
Surely you have a welder's union, a mechanic's union, a bodyman's union? Why not employ people from them?

Well this really isn't the political forum, and I'm not too familar with US politics outside from what I read in our local news and the political section in Fark.com :) So I really can't comment on that.

Still considering how the US is going at the moment, maybe going a little to the left wouldn't hurt? Remember politics is meant to be about balance and compromise with the ideal somewhere in the middle....maybe you've gone too far one way?
Both of those sources are so far left-biased, it's not even funny.
 
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GRtak

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Your right, a piss poor design would have nothing to do with it, just like the Ford Focus mkI.
 

kaBOOMn

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You know the Ford Focus Mk I, of course.

Well, Ford brought the entire design over from Europe, completely unmodified. The only difference is that they had UAW workers build it.

What resulted was the MOST recalled car in American history.

No design changes. No materials changes, parts came from the same suppliers but different factories, all to the same standards.

Seeing as how the only thing that changed was the people assembling it, please explain how cheap materials or poor design was responsible?
Well I'm honestly not sure, what where the problems? Engine, body, electrics?

Here is a pointer for you. Australia gets a lot of low volume Japanese imports and its quite interesting to see what happens to some cars that where never sold here by the companies when they where new.

Take the twin turbo 300ZX (Z32?). As you know, Australia is generally quite hot and due to the cooling system, Nissan Australia only sold the N/A version. Now a few people have imported the turbo version and when the A/C is on, the engine gets a little, uh, "warm" and experiences quite a few mechanical problems....

I'm guessing (and its a long shot) but maybe Ford didn't due their homework enough on the climate (what part of the US had the most problems?) and usage cycle of the Ford in America as compared to Europe? I have a hard time believing a competent company like Ford designed their production line so there was so much possible quality influence on the part of the guy putting it together on the line or component supplier...

Actually they couldn't have taken the whole car un-modified, the ECC/UN vehicle standard rules are different to the US DOT rules, also you have the difference in fuel and emission requirements etc etc
 

Spectre

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Well I'm honestly not sure, what where the problems? Engine, body, electrics?

Here is a pointer for you. Australia gets a lot of low volume Japanese imports and its quite interesting to see what happens to some cars that where never sold here by the companies when they where new.

Take the twin turbo 300ZX (Z32?). As you know, Australia is generally quite hot and due to the cooling system, Nissan Australia only sold the N/A version. Now a few people have imported the turbo version and when the A/C is on, the engine gets a little, uh, "warm" and experiences quite a few mechanical problems....

I'm guessing (and its a long shot) but maybe Ford didn't due their homework enough on the climate (what part of the US had the most problems?) and usage cycle of the Ford in America as compared to Europe? I have a hard time believing a competent company like Ford designed their production line so there was so much possible quality influence on the part of the guy putting it together on the line or component supplier...

Actually they couldn't have taken the whole car un-modified, the ECC/UN vehicle standard rules are different to the US DOT rules, also you have the difference in fuel and emission requirements etc etc

Actually, the north had the most problems. Surprisingly, it wasn't cooling issues, but water intrusion that was the biggest problem. Here's some of the recalls, pardon the caps please.

VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH SPEED CONTROL. THE SPEED CONTROL CABLE END FITTING CAN ALLOW WATER TO ENTER THE SPEED CONTROL SERVO ASSEMBLY. IF THIS OCCURS, CORROSION IN THE SERVO ASSEMBLY COULD DEVELOP AND CAUSE INTERMITTENT SPEED CONTROL OPERATION OR PREVENT THE THROTTLE FROM RETURNING TO IDLE.

VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH SPEED CONTROL AND AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION. A SPEED CONTROL CABLE COULD HAVE A CORE WIRE THAT IS LONG ENOUGH TO CATCH ON THE SLEEVE AT THE THROTTLE BODY END OF THE CABLE DURING WIDE-OPEN THROTTLE ACCELERATION.

(This was my favorite - the damned wheels feel off the car!) THIS IS NOT A SAFETY RECALL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SAFETY ACT. HOWEVER, IT IS DEEMED A SAFETY IMPROVEMENT CAMPAIGN BY THE AGENCY. VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: 2000-2001 FORD FOCUS PASSENGER VEHICLES, ORIGINALLY SOLD IN OR CURRENTLY REGISTERED IN THE STATES OF CONNECTICUT, DELAWARE, ILLINOIS, INDIANA, IOWA, KENTUCKY, MAINE, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, MICHIGAN, MINNESOTA, MISSOURI, NEW HAMPSHIRE, NEW JERSEY, NEW YORK, OHIOM, PENNSYLVANIA, RHODE ISLAND, VERMONT, WEST VIRGINIA, AND WISCONSIN. IN HIGH CORROSION AREAS, WHERE SALT IS USED ON ROADWAYS IN THE WINTER, THE REAR WHEEL BEARING SEAL RACE CAN EXPERIENCE SURFACE CORROSION. IF THIS CONDITION OCCURS, THE WHEEL BEARING SEALS COULD BECOME DAMAGED AND ALLOW CONTAMINATION TO ENTER THE WHEEL BEARINGS.

VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. A DECKLID WIRE HARNESS CAN FATIGUE AND DEVELOP BROKEN WIRES IN THE BEND AREA OF THE WIRE HARNESS.

VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: STATION WAGONS AND 3-DOOR VEHICLES. THE SUBJECT VEHICLES HAVE A FOLDING 60/40 SECOND SEAT THAT BECOMES A LOAD FLOOR IN THE FOLDED POSITION. WHEN THE 60% PORTION OF THE SEAT IS FOLDED DOWN AND A LOAD IS APPLIED TO THE FRONT EDGE OF THE LOAD FLOOR, THE OUTBOARD HINGE PIVOT COULD DISENGAGE FROM THE HINGE.

(And then again: Wheel falls off car.) VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. THE REAR WHEEL HUB RETAINING NUTS CAN LOOSEN AND ALLOW THE LEFT REAR WHEEL AND BRAKE DRUM ASSEMBLY TO SEPARATE FROM THE VEHICLE.

CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES WITH FOUR OR FIVE DOORS AND ORIGINALLY SOLD IN OR CURRENTLY REGISTERED IN CONNECTICUT, DELAWARE, ILLINOIS, INDIANA, IOWA, MAINE, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, MICHIGAN, MINNESOTA, MISSOURI, NEW HAMPSHIRE, NEW JERSEY, NEW YORK, OHIO, PENNSYLVANIA, RHODE ISLAND, VERMONT, WEST VIRGINIA, WISCONSIN, AND THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, A BUILD-UP OF CORROSION AT THE PAWL PIVOT AREA OF THE REAR DOOR LATCH CAN CAUSE A BINDING CONDITION OF THE PAWL THAT MAY AFFECT PROPER ENGAGEMENT OF THE PAWL INTO THE CATCH. THE OCCUPANT MAY EXPERIENCE DIFFICULTY OPENING OR CLOSING A REAR DOOR, AND EVENTUALLY THE REAR DOOR MAY NOT LATCH PROPERLY.

(Another good one - UAW twit didn't bolt the steering together properly) CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES HAVE LOOSE PINCH BOLTS THAT SECURE THE LOWER CONTROL ARM TO THE STEERING KNUCKLE HAVE BEEN REPORTED.

(More UAW idiocy, misrouted cables) CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ZETEC ENGINES, LOOSE OR BROKEN ATTACHMENTS AND MISROUTED BATTERY CABLES COULD LEAD TO CABLE INSULATION DAMAGE. THIS, IN TURN, COULD CAUSE THE BATTERY CABLES TO SHORT RESULTING IN HEAT DAMAGE TO THE CABLES. BESIDES HEAT DAMAGE, THE "CHECK ENGINE" LIGHT MAY ILLUMINATE, THE VEHICLE MAY FAIL TO START, OR SMOKE, MELTING, OR FIRE COULD ALSO OCCUR.

And, other than the bumpers, the cam in the engine, and the fuel map in the computer, the US and Euro Mk 1 Focus are identical in terms of chassis and mechanics. I believe the exterior lighting and the radio are different as well, but that's pretty much it.
 
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AiR

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This caught my interest. This is how we do it here in our socialistic, mixed market society.
Tell you what. When you open or take ownership of that business, make sure you only hire union labor.
That's absurd. As an employer I couldnt care less if they were in a union or not. If I opened my own business and needed to hire say 10 guys I'd want to know how much I should pay them, we have no laws on minimum pay in this country. So I'd go to the trade union in my field and sign the collective bargaining agreement which would both protect me from strikes and blockades and give my employees a fair salary to start from. The collective bargaining agreement applies to everyone of that particular field (say metal workers) in my business, regardless of membership in a union.

However say I did not sign the CBA, then I'd leave myself open to strikes at any time by my employees, as they would not have any agreement keeping them from going to strike.

This is why I feel unions are a good idea, they are good for employees and employers alike. A recent poll shows that 95% of small businesses think the CBA acts as a support in their day to day operations and only 5% would prefer to have laws instead. On that subject, the CBA can overrule swedish law which is a demonstration on how much emphasis we put on employers and employees working together. As I said before, we have no laws for minimum pay and overall very little intervention from the state.
 
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kaBOOMn

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(This was my favorite - the damned wheels feel off the car!) THIS IS NOT A SAFETY RECALL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SAFETY ACT. HOWEVER, IT IS DEEMED A SAFETY IMPROVEMENT CAMPAIGN BY THE AGENCY. VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: 2000-2001 FORD FOCUS PASSENGER VEHICLES, ORIGINALLY SOLD IN OR CURRENTLY REGISTERED IN THE STATES OF CONNECTICUT, DELAWARE, ILLINOIS, INDIANA, IOWA, KENTUCKY, MAINE, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, MICHIGAN, MINNESOTA, MISSOURI, NEW HAMPSHIRE, NEW JERSEY, NEW YORK, OHIOM, PENNSYLVANIA, RHODE ISLAND, VERMONT, WEST VIRGINIA, AND WISCONSIN. IN HIGH CORROSION AREAS, WHERE SALT IS USED ON ROADWAYS IN THE WINTER, THE REAR WHEEL BEARING SEAL RACE CAN EXPERIENCE SURFACE CORROSION. IF THIS CONDITION OCCURS, THE WHEEL BEARING SEALS COULD BECOME DAMAGED AND ALLOW CONTAMINATION TO ENTER THE WHEEL BEARINGS.
A wheel bearing causing a wheel to come off? Thats a new one....I wonder how much salt they use in the US/Canada? Lets look at it closely, its the seal seat/race, I assume the casting of the whole rear stub axle assembly would be the same in the US as in Europe and the assembly process (which I'd imagine would be automated but the sub supplier) is adheared to spec....actually how can you honestly screw that up? On the race is a rubber seal that keep the bearings safe -- rubber grade, thermal cycling etc sounds more like the cause of the problem.

A loose (incorrect torque) retaining nut would cause problems in vehicle testing, and they are all staked (on EVERY type of car) Overtightening would cause excess drag.

I have seen wheel bearings seize and destroy the bearing cage (Ford Cortina setup) This loaded the wheel up that the driver had to pull over, but not actually throw the whole wheel.....then again the northern hemisphere is weird and its where all the problems in the world come from :p :lol:

VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. A DECKLID WIRE HARNESS CAN FATIGUE AND DEVELOP BROKEN WIRES IN THE BEND AREA OF THE WIRE HARNESS.
Slack?

(And then again: Wheel falls off car.) VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES. THE REAR WHEEL HUB RETAINING NUTS CAN LOOSEN AND ALLOW THE LEFT REAR WHEEL AND BRAKE DRUM ASSEMBLY TO SEPARATE FROM THE VEHICLE.
Rattle Gun? Normally in a production sense you set all the guns to a set torque to there is no way any problems can occur. Any other problems must be a metal fatigue problem or the maintaince people didn't get the guns setup to the factory spec.

Stupidity like a cross threaded wheel nut are easy to pickup...

(Another good one - UAW twit didn't bolt the steering together properly) CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES HAVE LOOSE PINCH BOLTS THAT SECURE THE LOWER CONTROL ARM TO THE STEERING KNUCKLE HAVE BEEN REPORTED.
(I'm not 100% how the focus is setup in this regard, is it one pinch bolt with the thread in the uni joint, or a bolt with a seperate nut, be it a Nylock or metal locking nut on the other end??)

Again two reasons, first is the torque setting on what they used (machine tool/rattle gun) to put the thing together (give the assy guy as little control as possible) or its a material spec issue. Nylon grade in the nylock nut or dodgy metal locking nuts? I've seen problems with new Nylocks....:mad:

(More UAW idiocy, misrouted cables) CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH ZETEC ENGINES, LOOSE OR BROKEN ATTACHMENTS AND MISROUTED BATTERY CABLES COULD LEAD TO CABLE INSULATION DAMAGE. THIS, IN TURN, COULD CAUSE THE BATTERY CABLES TO SHORT RESULTING IN HEAT DAMAGE TO THE CABLES. BESIDES HEAT DAMAGE, THE "CHECK ENGINE" LIGHT MAY ILLUMINATE, THE VEHICLE MAY FAIL TO START, OR SMOKE, MELTING, OR FIRE COULD ALSO OCCUR.
Uh can't really defend that one, which twit designed the cable (slack) that could go to two places and which twit didn't remember which way the cable went?!? :rolleyes:

Same goes with the boot cable issue. There can be two problems in that case, not enough slack (costs more) or the grade of the wire and insulation just wasn't up to it....

....and again with the cruise control, did they use a rubber end (what grade?) or a plastic end, and what was the clearance?

Its quite a nice romantic notion to blame the last guy who worked on it/put it together, the sad fact is that most problems are NOT the last guys fault.

Most problems are sadly in the detail design of products not the assembly and normally they are caused by trying to make them cheaper by cutting costs on materials and cutting time in the assembly sequence.

Other issues sound related to corrosion and salt on roads, I have exactly 0% knowledge of salt on roads, since I live in the driest state in Australia but do they use more/less than Europe, what grade and for how long?

Also look up some European recalls, and see what the Focus was recalled for over there?

Due to some of your other comments Spectre I'm beginning to wonder if to you this is more of a political issue -- They seem to be on the opposite side of the political spectrum that your seem to be on, so they make a nice target -- rather than a honest assembly quality issue.

I'm sorry I didn't really mean to get personal, but I can't believe simply that people putting together stuff in the US are THAT BAD. Hell if they are that bad then they deserve everything they get!

I don't agree with a lot of what I hear about the UAW, but I think you are going a little overboard in this case.
 
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