Helsinki Smash Rod
- Nov 15, 2008
- N38? 43', W90? 22'
- Roger Dean's Rocks
Again, you're just assuming that a volunteer instructor for a track day won't be good. What do you have against HPDE's and PDX's, exactly? Just because they're volunteer instructors doesn't mean they're automatically shit, you know.Snobbishness, that's a good one. Skip Barber is convenient for him. If he was in Pennsylvania I'd tell him to go to Bertil Roos. If Arizona then Bondurant. Hell if it was licensing season I'd even tell him to do an SCCA school if he can find a good price on a rental. Any racing school with a decent reputation will do for a fantastic introduction to racing, which is what he needs. HPDE in a Jetta with a volunteer instructor who may or may not be good isn't going to show him what racing is about. Driving a race car, being instructed by successful racing drivers, and doing practice starts is.
And who's to say that an HPDE in a Jetta won't "show him what racing is about"? I thought the purpose of this exercise was for him to know whether he wanted to go faster or not. I can't think of a better car than a Jetta to make one desire more speed.
Ideally, yes, he would rent a race car and attend a lapping session... but I'm working with what I know for a fact he has, which doesn't include $500 to plunk down on an hour or two of track time. By comparison, it's $50 for a NASA HyperDrive HPDE, which gets you about half the seat time for 1/10th the cost.
Again, there's that disconnect. How is the $30,000 that you said a season in a Spec class not "a lot of money"? That's not only a substantial amount of money, but it's also very wrong. I've priced out next year's costs for Spec Focus, including the car itself, at a little less than $15,000 for seven race weekends.You have a habit of turning even a mundane conversation into some kind of do-or-die debate for the world. You obviously have not been reading my posts, since you're pulling this high-school stuff. But go ahead, keep branding me as an elitist snob, even when I specifically told him to look up SCCA/NASA and to avoid the Skip Barber race series unless he has a lot of money
I've been soured on talking about my personal life on this forum, but yes. I've only been behind a wrench for actual road racing, not a wheel, though.I myself am going to race in SCCA next year, even though I'm not going to expect to make any money out of it or even advance my career - this is driver development and assessment, which is why I'm getting a coach that has fielded successful drivers and two of my previous coaches, both at Skip Barber and Jim Russell. You claim I'm out of touch. Do you even race cars Dogbert? I've never seen you talk about it before.
Why is it a stupid decision? It's not like race cars depreciate the more they change hands. He could easily buy a car and all it entails for about $10,000, turn around the next week, and probably sell it for just as much.I don't care how many people you know that bought a race car outright before ever driving on a track (though you said "it" on a track, I was referring to racing in general). Buying a race car and all it entails (trailer, spares, tow vehicle if necessary) without even knowing if racing's what you really want to do is a stupid decision. Lots of people do stupid stuff every day, including racing drivers. Quantity alone is not a good indicator of what to do. Drivers have gone straight from karting into Indy Lights. Doesn't mean you should try that.
And you're twisting my argument around to "just buy a car and hope for the best". I'm saying go talk to some guys, watch some regional races, and figure out exactly what you want to drive. Once he's figured out that he wants to go faster in the first place, what better way to learn how to race cars than be instructed in the car you'll be competing in? Especially since wrecking some Spec Pinata is way cheaper than wrecking a rental.
What the fuck? You're taking my argument, presenting it as your own, and then telling it to me like I don't know what you're talking about. I have no idea how you just did that.Like I alluded to but didn't explain, professional as a definition in racing is not just about financial return. It's about presentation, skill, focus, and a whole host of other parameters. Having a professional presentation, for instance, has nothing to do with how much you're paid, but it does have everything to do with how people perceive you.
Those are two awesome strawmen you just created.By the way, a humongous portion of the sponsorships displayed on cars in the US road racing are the driver's or team owner's personal business. Stickers do not a professional make. Racing is also not web design, and is much more complicated financially. I'm surprised someone as interesting in definition as yourself would even suggest a parallel between the two.
I never said "stickers make you a professional". I said sponsorships make you a professional. As in, people who pay you to put things on your car... stickers included.
And I'm not comparing web design to racing, nor do I have any idea how that went over your head. I'm making, or at least trying to make, the argument that just because something isn't your sole source of income doesn't mean you aren't a professional at it.
Also, just for reference