If you had the power, how would you force/convince people to downsize their cars?

2Billion

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I think you misunderstood my point. I never said that lots of space will automatically equal larger cars. I was simply pointing out to narf that size of cars is a composite of the running costs (insurance/fuel mostly in this case) and space (wider roads, more parking, etc..). If you had to live in Athens and A8s would cost $20K you still wouldn't want to buy it because that place has SUPER narrow roads and no parking whatsoever. If you lived in the middle of nowhere somewhere in TX but something the size of a Camry would cost you $50K you would still go for a smaller car.
I was mostly responding to Canuck and his Texas in Europe image, since it's pretty well completely irrelevant to what's popular, from a car perspective. And it's really more complicated than running costs, since as I said, trucks fly off the lots here, just like they do south of the border. It's the cars, and crossover thingies, that skew smaller.
 
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prizrak

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I was mostly responding to Canuck and his Texas in Europe image, since it's pretty well completely irrelevant to what's popular, from a car perspective. And it's really more complicated than running costs, since as I said, trucks fly off the lots here, just like they do south of the border. It's the cars, and crossover thingies, that skew smaller.
Well I meant more for private commuter/pleasure vehicles not commercial/utility vehicles. Like you said it makes sense to run an F350 if you have a lot of shit to haul if the roads can accommodate it rather than drive an F150 back and forth 3 times.

You are right on the TX vs Europe image though. Still a funny image :)
 

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I still stand by empty space = bigger cars, it just makes sense to me. Small Korean cars are only popular here because they're cheap. Price is the only reason why you would go small in Canada (Enthusiast sports cars don't count). What family would choose the Rondo over a Caravan if it weren't a couple grand cheaper? We're not more open to smaller cars than Americans, we're just cheaper.
 

argatoga

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You know what annoys me, people who buy Ferraris. The vast majority of owners never take them to a track. What is the point?
 

2Billion

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I still stand by empty space = bigger cars, it just makes sense to me. Small Korean cars are only popular here because they're cheap. Price is the only reason why you would go small in Canada (Enthusiast sports cars don't count). What family would choose the Rondo over a Caravan if it weren't a couple grand cheaper? We're not more open to smaller cars than Americans, we're just cheaper.
Actually plenty of families would, and do. I know plenty of families who go for the slightly smaller people carrier because it's all they need, or they're replacing their van with something smaller because they don't want to drive the bigger vehicle any more - my sister's family (four people, two teenagers) bought a Pontiac Vibe and drives it as their primary vehicle, after years of having a van as their main ride, because they just got tired of hauling around a van - which they're keeping, mind you, since the kids are still in team sports and vans lose all of their value instantly so it's not like it's worth selling. A refrain of "why do I have this giant thing" is ringing out among the majority of families I know.
 
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edkwon

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When I got back to America, I walked out of the airport and the first thing I thought was how large the roads and vehicles were. Here in America we have grown a good portion as a country with the automobile being an everyday part of our lives. My view on this thread is that if you have the space and money to afford a large vehicle then do it. If it is going to make your life a pain in the ass then pass and by a small car.
That logic is a little flawed, it's like saying people should be allowed to grow morbidly obese simply because fat pants are manufacturers. Or eat everything in sight at a buffet...simply because you can. Likewise, just because the roads are spacious...get the largest possible car to fill that space ...taking away the benefit of having the extra space?

No, I do not agree.
 

argatoga

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That logic is a little flawed, it's like saying people should be allowed to grow morbidly obese simply because fat pants are manufacturers. Or eat everything in sight at a buffet...simply because you can. Likewise, just because the roads are spacious...get the largest possible car to fill that space ...taking away the benefit of having the extra space?

No, I do not agree.
Americans have always loved big cars hence the 225-244in cars of the 50s, 60s, and 70s. If someone likes having a big car so be it. We have the room for it here.
 

2Billion

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I'm going to go so far as to say Americans have loved big cars since ad agencies first trumped something as being longer, lower and wider.

Yes, I'll posit that the American love of larger cars is due to an ad campaign in the '50s.

And whatever, it works for them. Business is, by its very nature, about making people want things they don't necessarily need. Without that we'd all be in Ladas.

Which is why I say that if you want people to downsize, forcing it won't work. Early Mercedes Benz success in America was because they were really expensive, exclusive and not Cadillacs, and it had the unintended effect of downsizing for those customers.
 
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edkwon

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Since everyone here seems to be pretty set that large cars are here to stay and not going anywhere, then how does that work with forum people's desires to go smaller and lightweight, or does that mean you've accepted the reality that the majority of buyers will steer the market in a direction you don't want?
 

2Billion

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There will always be a place for things that are a bit more niche. Hyundai might sell mostly Sonatas, but they're still doing the Veloster and Genesis Coupe. Mazda's bread and butter might be the 3, 6, and possibly the CXs but they still make the MX-5. Ford might sell more F150s than entire companies sell of their entire lineup, but that doesn't mean the Focus ST and Mustang are going anywhere.

Companies will sell anything that they believe has a profitable niche. Even if the majority of buyers don't go for them, as long as the market exists and there's a potential for profit, they'll make them.
 

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Well I'm late to the thread as usual.

I wouldn't force anyone to do anything. I would however consider hiring marketing firms to convince people to shy away from big tanks they don't need.
Show the people who bitch about gas mileage in their truck that it would be more cost effective to just own a small car (or a bike) for the commute and when you need to tow your boat once every 3 months when you can afford to take it... rent one for the damn day.

You know what annoys me, people who buy Ferraris. The vast majority of owners never take them to a track. What is the point?
I got you 1 upped on that.

I get irritated by people who on various M/AMG/RS badged cars. Everyone of them, the big AMG's are the worst, are best found driving in the slow lane holding up traffic on while on their phones trying to save on gas.

I've at least seen a Ferrari at the track (hell had said 575 nearly plow into the back of me going int Cotton Corners).
 
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prizrak

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I get irritated by people who on various M/AMG/RS badged cars. Everyone of them, the big AMG's are the worst, are best found driving in the slow lane holding up traffic on while on their phones trying to save on gas.
Every time I see an ///M they are driving like complete idiots. I think most people who actually buy an AMG don't know what an AMG is.... Only seen one RS on the road he was a decent bloke (came to one of our meets).
 

argatoga

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I got you 1 upped on that.

I get irritated by people who on various M/AMG/RS badged cars. Everyone of them, the big AMG's are the worst, are best found driving in the slow lane holding up traffic on while on their phones trying to save on gas.

I've at least seen a Ferrari at the track (hell had said 575 nearly plow into the back of me going int Cotton Corners).
I fail at Internet sarcasm. :(

True story...I haven't seen a lot of AMG douchebags.
They won't see them to anyone else. :p
 

argatoga

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Since everyone here seems to be pretty set that large cars are here to stay and not going anywhere, then how does that work with forum people's desires to go smaller and lightweight, or does that mean you've accepted the reality that the majority of buyers will steer the market in a direction you don't want?
Not everyone likes the same thing. I like small cars, it doesn't mean everyone should be forced to drive them.
 

prizrak

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Since everyone here seems to be pretty set that large cars are here to stay and not going anywhere, then how does that work with forum people's desires to go smaller and lightweight, or does that mean you've accepted the reality that the majority of buyers will steer the market in a direction you don't want?
I would have to agree with 2Billion on this one. There are companies that make nothing but enthusiast cars, Caterham, Ariel, Lotus (well they got a GT car now). Then you got mainstream companies that make sports cars so you got the Nissan Zs the Hyundai Genesis.

The thing that Spectre and I were talking about is that if gov't removed safety regulations from cars things like the Z, Genesis Coupe, Stang and so on could be made much lighter and allow for us ENTHUSIASTS to enjoy them w/o actually hindering the rest of the population. Would also likely bring down the prices for those cars.
 
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