NBC/CBS reject "Kill the Ground Zero Mosque" ad

freefall said:
Also, your bold Israel banner begs a question of how well did you study history, and whether or not you spent some time in the region and seen the war from both sides?
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Woah there. Let's not throw in entirely unrelated stuff. I'm 100% in support of Cordoba House, but I also support Israel (Let's set aside all the normal discussions about government tolerance of minority opinions, open self-criticism in the media, meaningful changes in leadership every few years due to the democratic process, rights extended to political and religious minorities and women, combatants protecting their citizenry instead of hiding amongst them, etc. I'll just say this, and it's absolutely irrefutable: I'm a big fan of the gays, and Israel is the only country in the Middle East where LGBT = okay).

So let's definitely not take the stance that "people who support Israel can't have an informed opinion on the Cordoba House." Those are two unrelated issues.
 
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Dogbert said:
I can think of nothing better than Sarah Palin trying to be President.
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As you might have guessed (hurr hurr :p) I am right of middle. However, I still want the Dems to have a good candidate.


freefall said:
Is that because you don't fully understand what belief any of the religions has at its core? How much time have you spent with any of them to have such a strong opinion?
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I am neither a historian nor a minister/priest/rabbi/etc but I know enough about history and theology to be able to form opinions.


freefall said:
Also, your bold Israel banner begs a question of how well did you study history, and whether or not you spent some time in the region and seen the war from both sides?
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I may not be proud of everything America has done over the years, but I still support this country. Same with Israel. Not everything can be justified with facts and figures.

Oh, and what Mitlov said :)
 
kyon_facepalm.jpg


You know that whole thing about the terrorists winning?

Yeah.

"In Islam, a mosque means 'We have conquered this country,' " one man told a local CNN affiliate. "And where are they? They're in the center of Tennessee. They're going to say, 'We have conquered Tennessee.' "
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Absolutely disgusting.
 
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You know, Osama's hiding out in some cave right now, plotting how he can fly an airplane into the Wal-Mart of some suburban Nashville city.
 
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Can someone make a, "When you protest a Mosque the Terrorists win," sign/demotivator for me?
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/30/anti-defamation-league-co_n_665433.html

So much for religious tolerance.

The Anti-Defamation League has joined the likes of Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Rick Lazio, and a slew of other Conservative protesters in standing against the building of a mosque in the vicinity of the World Trade Center site.

In a statement issued by the Jewish organization, the group claims that while "proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam," it is ultimately "not a question of rights, but a question of what is right."

Moreover, despite "the bigotry some have expressed in attacking" those behind the building of the mosque (which the ADL deems "unfair" and "wrong"), it is their judgment that "building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain - unnecessarily - and that is not right."

While the ADL rarely shies away from controversy, news of their opposition left many journalists and pundits stunned.
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Yeah, nevermind their legal and constitutional rights, it just "isn't right".

Wikipedia said:
Describing itself as "the nation's premier civil rights/human relations agency", the ADL states that it "fights anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry, defends democratic ideals and protects civil rights for all"
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"Yeah, we stand up against all forms of bigotry and protect people's civil rights... unless they're Muslim and we don't feel it's 'right'." Absolutely disgusting.
 
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You beat me to it. I saw this on Paul Krugman's blog this morning.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/bad-for-the-jews/

His reaction.


Bad for the Jews

Outside my usual beat, but the statement from the Anti-Defamation League opposing the construction of a mosque near Ground Zero is truly shocking. As Greg Sargent says, the key passage ? it?s a pretty short statement ? is this one:

Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain ? unnecessarily ? and that is not right.

Translation: some people will feel bad if this thing is built, and we need to take these feelings into account, even though proponents ?have every right to build at this site.?

So let?s try some comparable cases, OK? It causes some people pain to see Jews operating small businesses in non-Jewish neighborhoods; it causes some people pain to see Jews writing for national publications (as I learn from my mailbox most weeks); it causes some people pain to see Jews on the Supreme Court. So would ADL agree that we should ban Jews from these activities, so as to spare these people pain? No? What?s the difference?

One thing I thought Jews were supposed to understand is that they need to be advocates of universal rights, not just rights for their particular group ? because it?s the right thing to do, but also because, ahem, there aren?t enough of us. We can?t afford to live in a tribal world.

But ADL has apparently forgotten all that. Shameful ? and stupid.
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My sister just came back from an ADL-sponsored "dialogue" camp. she hated it because not only did it misrepresent our religion, but also completely failed as a means to create discussion about the issues that really matter. In addition, when my family was the victim of a real anti-semitic incident, the local franchise was completely unresponsive, which is a shame for my mother's former employer. The ADL has potential to work as a bridge between different faiths and creeds, but if they keep this sort of thing up they will lose all credibility. That said, I do think that in the past the ADL has been instrumental in teaching communities about hate crime and making them aware of the issues.

but that's another thread.
 
Mother of god, even my mom is buying into this shit. I tried to explain that it was completely unconstitutional, but it just fails to register. Didn't make it past the Fox News filter that's been installed in her ear canal. I had this discussion with her in front of my dad, who took my side with the constitution bit, but then did a complete 180 and said that "we must defend our lands".

It's pretty sucky when even your own family are making you more sad about the future. I guess that's why I'm here.

/cynical :/
 
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MadCat360 said:
I had this discussion with her in front of my dad, who took my side with the constitution bit, but then did a complete 180 and said that "we must defend our lands".
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Against what? What are people defending by saying "you shouldn't build any Islamic-related buildings here"?

The fact that people recognize that their opposition to this is blatantly unconstitutional, but still defend their view on some half-assed "decency" grounds, makes me wonder about the state of mind in this country even more than usual. This Islamic center is using the exact same constitutional grounds that Fred Phelps and his clan use to protest military funerals... but somehow these same people just let Fred Phelps get away with his shit, because it's "a constitutional right".

You know who should be on the side of the Islamic center? Tea partyers. Especially the ones who carry around the Constitution in their pocket. They rattle on about the "true meaning" of the Constitution, and how nobody's following the meaning of the Constitution anymore... well, the Constitution gives these people the right to assemble freely and express their religion anywhere they want.
 
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Dogbert said:
Against what? What are people defending by saying "you shouldn't build any Islamic-related buildings here"?

The fact that people recognize that their opposition to this is blatantly unconstitutional, but still defend their view on some half-assed "decency" grounds, makes me wonder about the state of mind in this country even more than usual. This Islamic center is using the exact same constitutional grounds that Fred Phelps and his clan use to protest military funerals... but somehow these same people just let Fred Phelps get away with his shit, because it's "a constitutional right".

You know who should be on the side of the Islamic center? Tea partyers. Especially the ones who carry around the Constitution in their pocket. They rattle on about the "true meaning" of the Constitution, and how nobody's following the meaning of the Constitution anymore... well, the Constitution gives these people the right to assemble freely and express their religion anywhere they want.
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Exactly right and that is how you can probably out just about any tea partier as not really for the Constitution anyway. They like to use the Constitution as a cover for other views but I would bet that the majority of them are against the Lower Manhattan Islamic Center.

I haven't had a chance to use that argument against a Tea Partier but I can just see the look on their face when they try to justify their position.
 
the easiest way for those who oppose the Islamic centre to win would be to buy them out, buy the land it would have been built on.

there is enough raging teabaggers in the US to do it.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/nyregion/31mosque.html?_r=1


Uniformly, there was disgust and disdain in the room for the idea,? Mr. Pantano said.

The issue was wrenching for the Anti-Defamation League, which in the past has spoken out against anti-Islamic sentiment. But its national director, Abraham H. Foxman, said in an interview on Friday that the organization came to the conclusion that the location was offensive to families of victims of Sept. 11, and he suggested that the center?s backers should look for a site ?a mile away.?
?It?s the wrong place,? Mr. Foxman said. ?Find another place.?

Asked why the opposition of the families was so pivotal in the decision, Mr. Foxman, a Holocaust survivor, said they were entitled to their emotions.

?Survivors of the Holocaust are entitled to feelings that are irrational,? he said. Referring to the loved ones of Sept. 11 victims, he said, ?Their anguish entitles them to positions that others would categorize as irrational or bigoted.?
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Good to see that they would throw the Constitution to the ground for "irrational and bigoted" reasons.

As long as the facility meets zoning requirments and doesn't cause logistic problems with traffic or utlities it should be built wherever they want. A mile away makes it ok but a third of a mile is too close?

Just like Fred Phelps can protest wherever he wants as long as he doesn't block movement or access to people or faclities then this YMMA should be able to be built wherever they want.


I wonder how Mr. Foxman feels about Brown vs. The Board of Education?
 
Dogbert said:
I can think of nothing better than Sarah Palin trying to be President.
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Jon Stewart would have to double the length of his show to keep up with all the new material. :lol:

Firecat said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/anti-mosque-protests-on-the-rise-say-muslim-advocates
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It really pisses me off that the side wanting to undercut religious freedoms (or constitutional rights of any kind) always shows up with a bunch of American flags. Fucking hypocrites hiding their bigotry and racism behind our flag.


jmsprovan said:
the easiest way for those who oppose the Islamic centre to win would be to buy them out, buy the land it would have been built on.
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IIRC, there is already a mosque there. They already own the land. They're just going to level it and build this community center/interfaith mosque/whatever.

British_Rover said:
Good to see that they would throw the Constitution to the ground for "irrational and bigoted" reasons.

As long as the facility meets zoning requirments and doesn't cause logistic problems with traffic or utlities it should be built wherever they want. A mile away makes it ok but a third of a mile is too close?
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I would think that the ADL especially would recognize the dangers and repercussions of statements like that. I've lost a lot of respect for them reading that.

And you know that if the mosque was a mile away people would still be railing against it. If it were anywhere in lower Manhattan we'd still be hearing the same "irrational and bigoted" comments.
 
tigger said:
And you know that if the mosque was a mile away people would still be railing against it. If it were anywhere in lower Manhattan we'd still be hearing the same "irrational and bigoted" comments.
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In fact, we're hearing the same irrational and bigoted comments about a building 900 miles away.

Unless the ADL membership ousts their director, I've lost all respect for them, and they've lost all credibility as an organization who pushes equality.

How could he even say something like that and believe himself, anyway? It was the Nazi's who had "irrational and bigoted" thoughts, and justified them with their "anguish", that caused the Holocaust in the first place... and now he's espousing the same line of thought? They should be ashamed of themselves as an organization.
 
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The ADL lost my respect long ago (around the time when Abraham Foxman accused Dolly Parton of being anti-Semitic because she said it was hard to pitch a Christmas album to a couple of Jewish record company executives...come on, dude, don't you have anything bigger to worry about?), but this brings them to a new low.
 
So holocaust and september 11 survivors have the right to think irrational and out of this wprld?
Then I guess all those families and people in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine who lost their children (who didn't even know how to say the word terrorists), wifes, brothers, sisters, husbands and who-not also have the right to be irrational and out of this world.
 
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