News: Porsche is about to face bankruptcy!

katwalk

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Let me clarify.

Considering that the Cayenne isn't selling (they're offering incentives to people to buy them around here) and the Panamera apparently isn't selling either (per reports), there is no profit in those two lines any more. The longer those things sit around (and they are) the less profit they make. At this point, they aren't selling, so there are no profits.
Isn't selling near you ? not selling. I see 2x as many Cayennes as any other type of Porsche. Idiots like them and there are a lot of idiots.
 

Spectre

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Isn't selling near you ? not selling. I see 2x as many Cayennes as any other type of Porsche. Idiots like them and there are a lot of idiots.
Ah, but those would be the original Cayenne. How many of the *new* Cayennes have you seen?

Porsche USA says they're down 29 percent overall and their cash cow Cayenne is down as well. They only moved 918 of them in May (last month for which Porsche has released numbers) in all of North America - and their original annual forecast (cut down from the 20K they sold last year) was 16,600 units - which at this rate they won't make either. They will be hard pressed to sell 12,000. My guess is that they'll sell less than 10K.

Strangely, the "cash cow" Cayenne didn't sell much more than the 911 in May - the 911 was only down 14% to 771 cars vice the 26% of the Cayenne.

Also strangely, Porsche is very late releasing the June figures. I wonder why. :rolleyes::lol: I predict a calamitous decline in Cayenne sales.
 

Hercules286

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Ah, but those would be the original Cayenne. How many of the *new* Cayennes have you seen?
Can YOU tell a new Cayenne from an old Cayenne? :p

BTW, Porsche makes insane profits per car. Unless the incentives are over 10K, they're still making hefty profit.

I also question your data - a german luxury-rocket SUV isn't as desirable in Texas as it is in other markets.
 

klankymen

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I also question your data - a german luxury-rocket SUV isn't as desirable in Texas as it is in other markets.
well, my uncle lives in Texas and has a Cayenne, which was preceeded by 2 X5s, so.... my data indicates that german luxury rocket SUVs work quite well in Texas... :D
 

hajj

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Dont they make ?20k profit per car?
I think those profits were so high, because of the non-operating gains. People just divided the pre-tax profit by the number of cars, so it is unlikely that they still earn that much.
 

hajj

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Yes they are offering ?7bn, but it is unknown what they will get for it.
 

katwalk

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Ah, but those would be the original Cayenne. How many of the *new* Cayennes have you seen?

Porsche USA says they're down 29 percent overall and their cash cow Cayenne is down as well. They only moved 918 of them in May (last month for which Porsche has released numbers) in all of North America - and their original annual forecast (cut down from the 20K they sold last year) was 16,600 units - which at this rate they won't make either. They will be hard pressed to sell 12,000. My guess is that they'll sell less than 10K.

Strangely, the "cash cow" Cayenne didn't sell much more than the 911 in May - the 911 was only down 14% to 771 cars vice the 26% of the Cayenne.

Also strangely, Porsche is very late releasing the June figures. I wonder why. :rolleyes::lol: I predict a calamitous decline in Cayenne sales.
In this economy EVERYONE is way down. No surprise cars that expensive can't sell when people can't even afford toyotas.
 

JakeRadden

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To be honest, Spectre, I don't understand how they are "in debt up to their eyeballs" when their stake of VW is valued at what, something over 30 billion euros? That gives them a debt figure of (Not even counting what Porsche is worth themselves) 30%, which while more than I would like is not excessive for a company that large.

Please explain?
 

WillDAQ

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Regardless of the value of your assets, you have to actually have the money to pay for the loan. They haven't been able to raid VWs piggy bank to pay for it, so they've got huge extra outgoings they weren't expecting.
 

phuckingduck

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Can someone give me footnotes on what happened here? I knew Porsche was trying to take over VAG, but what happened? And shouldn't eclipsing 50% ownership give them superior equity privileges?
 

Porsche Liebhaber

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They will live. They just won't be independent anymore. They made a big fiscal gamble and failed.
Yeah unlike Ferdinand Porsche has said; "Porsche must remain small and independent" I suppose Mr. WW "Wendelinging Wiedekingdong" doesn't care about that nor the Porsche family traditions, but only cares about himself.
R.I.P Ferry
 

Dr_Grip

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Can someone give me footnotes on what happened here? I knew Porsche was trying to take over VAG, but what happened? And shouldn't eclipsing 50% ownership give them superior equity privileges?
If you're too lazy to read up all the articles MacGuffin linked, here's a rough overview of what happened in layman's terms (written by a layman, me, in another thread some weeks ago, so don't expect accuracy in all the details):

Porsche's whole idea of taking over VW started when the crisis was in full swing and VW stock dropped. They figured that they could simply borrow money cheaply, buy VW, and then pay the money back from VW's cash reserves.
The problem is that when the state of Lower-Saxony, who owned VW until 1960, sold it off, they passed a law that states that no matter how many shares a single party owns, this party's vote will be limited to 20%, the same the state of Lower-Saxony has. With the State of Lower Saxony having the same voting power as any given third party, they, together with the worker's council, can block any descision, like, for example, granting Porsche acess to VW's cash reserve.
Porsche's CEO now gambled that a EU court would overthrow this law, thus giving them control of the already-bought company. Sadly, he underestimated the creativity of Lower-Saxony's ruling conservative party: Using a loophole in german stock coropration law, they changed the majority of votes needed in the shareholder's meeting from the standard 75% to 80%, which gives them, holding 20.2% of stock the same rights as before without violating EU rules. Thus, Porsche is fucked for now.
The EU already has taken Lower-Saxony to court over the new law as it obviously serves the sole purpose of circumventing a prior court ruling, but until that's decided, VW most likely bought Porsche themselves, or some Sheik did...
 
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MacGuffin

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This whole thing has a touch of "Dallas" or "Dynasty": It is not really connected to car production or car business but about gambling, power struggle and family feuds.

Both VW and Porsche are actually very healthy companies.

But thanks to the megalomaniac attempt of Porsche's CEO Wendelin Wiedeking, who tried to secure Porsche's future as an independent car maker by swallowing VW, Porsche is in big trouble now and may not be able to survive independently -- even though they probably could have without this attempt to take over the 3rd biggest car maker in the world.
 
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