Anesthesia Well-Known Member Joined Jun 18, 2011 Messages 1,146 Location Turku Finland Car(s) '88 Civic 1.6i-16, '05 Accord, '93 Kawa VN1500, Jan 28, 2020 #19,161 MWF said: Needs shoes. On the plus side it does appear you can tie a proper, full Windsor knot. Click to expand... Shoes were used! And the tie was google and plenty of times of trying to get it right.