Power steering and A/C removal? Any real performance gains?

MattD1zzl3

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I have driven a fourth gen f-body with the power steering disabled or broken in and out of a parking spot, but exactly that, i figured with a rack replacement it would be do-able.

Weight is 3400 pounds.
 

argatoga

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That's where you will feel it the most. If you can deal with that than your OK as it only gets easier from there.

F.Y.I. my MG is 1600lbs.
 

Spectre

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IIRC, aren't F-bodies recirculating ball as opposed to rack and pinion?
 

argatoga

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IIRC, aren't F-bodies recirculating ball as opposed to rack and pinion?
Wait! What? Why the Hell would they be using a recirculating ball in the 80's? Even then that was ancient technology.
 

Labcoatguy

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Wait! What? Why the Hell would they be using a recirculating ball in the 80's? Even then that was ancient technology.
Mercedes kept using till the 2000s if I recall correctly. The first-gen SLK even had it.
 

Spectre

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And trucks still use it - but if you have that, it won't be so simple as "dropping in a new rack."
 

MattD1zzl3

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All fourth generation F bodies (1993 onward) have rack and pinion steering from the factory. Base V6, V8, Super sport, whatever. After 1994 some of them had frigging traction control... they are just a little bit more sophisticated and fun to drive than many give them credit for.

BMR is the wonderland of making f-bodies go around corners, im pretty much going to give them every bonus i get this year :)

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/K-Members/KM014-1R.jpg

ohh yea, bmr crossmember, its pure sex. The factory GM one is made of like 1 foot wide stamped iron and lead, and is full of dropped wrenches and sockets from over the years, which disappear into it never to be seen again.
 
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NotLaw

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Going without power steering probably would not be all that bad
My car is almost as heavy (if not more with a 2900 lbs dry weight), and I (properly) removed the power steering about 18,000 miles ago (It had been dead for about 5,000 miles on top of that)
I even used it in heavy in-town driving back when I worked for Dominoes

Never had any issue, its only slightly more difficult to turn -when its moving- then it was back when the power steering still worked.
Indeed, my parents '98 Olds Aurora, with power steering, is actually more difficult to turn at 25mph+ then the Fairlane is

Under 25 mph, it is slightly more difficult, but not unmanageably so. Even when its stopped, I hardly have any issue.

its even still got the PS steering box (and subsequent ratio)


As for the AC, I wouldn't know, the Blazer has so little power to begin with, that of course having it off makes a huuuge difference
Doesn't seem to bother the more powerful cars in the family though
 

argatoga

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Worm gears are easier to handle without assistance apparently. So not a perfect comparison with a rack and pinion system.
 

MattD1zzl3

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out of curiosity aratoga, how wide are the front tires on that MG/wankel awesome mobile? :D I think that has something to do with the low-speed no power steering effort as well. Camaros sit on actually-pretty-beefy 245mm wide/9.5 inch wide front tires. Which is a lot of contact patch to move around...
 

GaryC

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Momo doesn't have power steering, and it's not that bad once you start driving. It's just at low speeds where you struggle a bit. You'll soon learn to keep the car moving if you want to turn the wheels. It's better for them, anyway.

As for a performance increase... I don't see the point on the road. You'll get a fraction of a second faster. But have to stop at the traffic light again anyway.
 

argatoga

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out of curiosity aratoga, how wide are the front tires on that MG/wankel awesome mobile? :D I think that has something to do with the low-speed no power steering effort as well. Camaros sit on actually-pretty-beefy 245mm wide/9.5 inch wide front tires. Which is a lot of contact patch to move around...
155SR13 . I haven't tried out my new tires yet. Not exactly dragsters.
 

thedguy

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So let me get this straight, you have traction issues, to solve this you want to:

  • shave weight (about 80lbs)
  • Reduce parasitic drag (effectively increased power to the rear wheels)
  • not replace shitty diff?

I'm sure I'm missing the "????" and "profit" in there but whatever. How exactly is increasing power and reducing the capacity for traction (weight does help it at the expense of acceleration) going to help your problem?

Might I recommend a stronger diff, more tire and better suspension? If more tire ain't possible/allowed then the other 2 options along with improving your launching technique seem like a better idea.

If you want to see if it'll help why not pull out the passenger seat, remove the belts off those 2 pumps? You might see a slight increase but nothing like you might by improving your 60' time... that is after all the most important part of the race (every 10th hear IIRC is worth at least 2/10ths at the end).

out of curiosity aratoga, how wide are the front tires on that MG/wankel awesome mobile? :D I think that has something to do with the low-speed no power steering effort as well. Camaros sit on actually-pretty-beefy 245mm wide/9.5 inch wide front tires. Which is a lot of contact patch to move around...
My miata is 2200lbs (sans me) with the 205 Azenis rt-615 (the old ones) and my power steering pump removed and the lines looped a lot of people who drive it have a very hard time with it, even those used to the manual racks. You have a lot more weight and a lot more tire, unless GM made a manual rack that is logically geared for that thing, I wouldn't yank the PS.
 
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prizrak

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I Making it easier to turn the wheel is a luxury, not a need. Luxury, comfort, economy and practicality are not what i am looking for in the car, and am as such considering the removal of the device.
Turning the wheel easier means that the car is easier to control through corners and emergency situations. It also means that your resistance is exactly the same (if the rack is designed properly) no matter what the speed, making it easier to control the car (no need to figure out how much force to apply to turn)
 

MattD1zzl3

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Because the traction issues can probably be best improved by me improving my skill at launching the car, and when i am sure i can do no better, than i will consider upgrades. The suspension is modified for traction, i've got the biggest tires i can fit without cutting into the rear of the car for more space. Chances are i need more practice, and not a detroit locker. (Although when i do get a rear end swap, im getting one of those annoying noisy ones that make the car hop and/or drag wheels when you turn a corner.)

Until than i will make up for my hamfoot on the far end of the quarter ;) A new diff way more than im willing to spend right now. 80 pounds sounds like a good amount of weight to remove. I can have another 10 or 20 off with 10 minutes and a 10MM wrench. Simplify and sprinkle with a dash of lightness!

Turning the wheel easier means that the car is easier to control through corners and emergency situations. It also means that your resistance is exactly the same (if the rack is designed properly) no matter what the speed, making it easier to control the car (no need to figure out how much force to apply to turn)
Core near? What is this "Core near" you speak of?
 
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thedguy

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Because the traction issues can probably be best improved by me improving my skill at launching the car, and when i am sure i can do no better, than i will consider upgrades. The suspension is modified for traction, i've got the biggest tires i can fit without cutting into the rear of the car for more space. Chances are i need more practice, and not a detroit locker. (Although when i do get a rear end swap, im getting one of those annoying noisy ones that make the car hop and/or drag wheels when you turn a corner.)

Until than i will make up for my hamfoot on the far end of the quarter ;) A new diff way more than im willing to spend right now. 80 pounds sounds like a good amount of weight to remove. I can have another 10 or 20 off with 10 minutes and a 10MM wrench. Simplify and sprinkle with a dash of lightness!
?
So why not just spend some time practicing your launches? Added benefit is you won't shred expensive rubber spinning wheels. It's a win-win.
 

MattD1zzl3

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I'm sure powersliding is trivial in that car :D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmxCLQQ6EVU[/youtube]

and before you ask, no of course this is not me, i dont know what your talking about, who are you, why are you in my room, help! Martha! Make the noises go away!
 
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