Prisoner granted right to father child from jail!

MWF

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Just spotted this story in today's Telegraph.

A prisoner has been allowed to father a child from behind bars via artificial insemination because of European laws that guarantee him the right to a "family life".

"The public are sick to the back teeth of the human rights of criminals being put before the rights of decent law-abiding people, victims and taxpayers."

Full article.

I have to say I'm with the second quote myself. What do you guys think?
 
I have to say I'm with the second quote myself. What do you guys think?

yeah me too. can't be a father and a locked up criminal at the same time... most of all i feel this is just terrible behaviour towards his child.
did i miss that or does it not say how long he will be behind bars? even if he gets to walk free after only a few years i still think its not an acceptable way to start a family...
 
Depends. If the guy is about to be let out anyway, and exhibited good behavior in jail, I see no problem. However, it's not ideal to have someone father a child while in prison for the forseable future.

Prison is about losing liberties, but simply banning this would seem silly.
 
No sorry can not agree - he loses that right when he chooses to be a criminal. We had a concept of Outlaw - these people used to be declared 'out side the law' right that was a bit extreme but you loose some of your rights when you go into gaol, hell the obvious one is 'freedom'.

EDIT/ the one you keep in this country is the right to life, not so in all other countries with capital punishment obviously. Do not do the crime if you can not do the time. ...
 
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That's precisely it. According to the ECHU it would appear the only liberties one has to lose if one commits a crime worth of a jail sentence are being able to go shopping or to the pub. Without the need for having to work for a living either.

It's high time we started making our own decisions instead of listening to what these halfwits in Brussels keep telling us to do. Full Human Rights apply to the decent, the law-abiding (and preferably the tax-paying!) - children who misbehave lose certain privileges for a period and nobody is saying their Human Rights are being breached yet as soon as apply the same rational to adults all of a sudden we are guilty as a society of human rights abuses?

If the guy is near the end of his sentence then he can bloody wait. If he isn't then tough shit. We want less of that type of DNA in the gene pool, not more of it.
 
his wife committed no crime and it is her who has to go through the fertility treatment, all he has to do is wank into a cup instead of the toilet bowl then send it by courier. The NHS pays for 3 rounds of IVF for other women, so what is the damn problem?

The Telegraph scraping the bottom for storm in a teacup stories, i fucking never-
 
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It should not do the IVF in my opinion (Its not an illness - they should pay privately for this sort of stuff). She can have a baby without the crim can she not - go find someone else?

I agree it is a bit of a storm in a teacup - one thought suppose a lifer/long term prisoner decides to have several/multiple women impregnated several/multiple times so they are all on the dole and being paid for by the tax payer, is that OK?
 
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I have to say I'm with the second quote myself. What do you guys think?

Me too. I'm just glad I won't be around when the shit really starts to fly as western civilization dissolves in the solvent of hippy liberal stupidity. I'm already seeing it in my profession. New and recent graduates no longer have the skills to function effectively without constant supervision and they no longer get the experience needed to progress their skills (due to working hours reductions). By the time they are in supervisory positions themselves it will a case of the blind leading the blind. There will be exceptions, but these will be freaks, and not the result of a sturdy and reliable system.

My depression about the future of mankind is surprisingly summed up in the opening of a throw away movie called "Idiocracy":

 
his wife committed no crime and it is her who has to go through the fertility treatment, all he has to do is wank into a cup instead of the toilet bowl then send it by courier. The NHS pays for 3 rounds of IVF for other women, so what is the damn problem?

The Telegraph scraping the bottom for storm in a teacup stories, i fucking never-

The criteria for IVF on the NHS are pretty strict. You have to have a documented history detailing all you have done and all the tests you have had before you qualify and while I can't remember the exact timescale I think that history has to be at least 5 years. Otherwise you have to find the money and fund it yourself privately as two colleagues of mine did recently. They were fortunate in that it worked for them first time but the cost ran into 5 figures Sterling!

Compare that to someone who is behind bars for a period of time for actions that he knew carried the risk of a custodial sentence. What gives him the right to something for free, without any documented history, that a decent, law-abiding couple with genuine fertility problems have to wait years and/or pay thousands for?
 
The criteria for IVF on the NHS are pretty strict. You have to have a documented history detailing all you have done and all the tests you have had before you qualify and while I can't remember the exact timescale I think that history has to be at least 5 years. Otherwise you have to find the money and fund it yourself privately as two colleagues of mine did recently. They were fortunate in that it worked for them first time but the cost ran into 5 figures Sterling!

Compare that to someone who is behind bars for a period of time for actions that he knew carried the risk of a custodial sentence. What gives him the right to something for free, without any documented history, that a decent, law-abiding couple with genuine fertility problems have to wait years and/or pay thousands for?

it might not even be IVF, rereading the article and copies of it on other news websites, they seem to readily alternate between IVF and Artificial Insemination whenever it fits the narrative of the story. IVF and Artificial Insemination are vastly different procedures with vastly different costs.
 
Well the Telegraph article states ?2000 which suggests AI over IVF but it's still taxpayers' money.

The whole point of custodial sentences is the removal of liberties. This type of case along with that of the right of serving prisoners to vote is the thin end of a very nasty wedge and each time we allow the ECHR to interfere like this we demean the value of the justice system and at the same time lay down test cases which will be used with increasing frequency by those who have transgressed to devalue the punishment that has been meted out for their unacceptable behaviour.
 
Well the Telegraph article states ?2000 which suggests AI over IVF but it's still taxpayers' money.

The whole point of custodial sentences is the removal of liberties. This type of case along with that of the right of serving prisoners to vote is the thin end of a very nasty wedge and each time we allow the ECHR to interfere like this we demean the value of the justice system and at the same time lay down test cases which will be used with increasing frequency by those who have transgressed to devalue the punishment that has been meted out for their unacceptable behaviour.

AI can be as simple as directly injecting the semen into the base of the cervix, that doesn't cost ?2000.

The whole ECHR thing in this story is unnecessary and probably just tacked on to so the Telegraph and other alarmist papers can continue their anti-europe circlejerk, this sort of decision is completely down to the Governor of the prison then the Justice Secretary.
 
No sorry can not agree - he loses that right when he chooses to be a criminal. We had a concept of Outlaw - these people used to be declared 'out side the law' right that was a bit extreme but you loose some of your rights when you go into gaol, hell the obvious one is 'freedom'.

EDIT/ the one you keep in this country is the right to life, not so in all other countries with capital punishment obviously. Do not do the crime if you can not do the time. ...

You lose your right to freedom. That's important enough.
 
Actually you lose your right to freedom of choice.
 
You lose your right to freedom. That's important enough.
No I disagree that is insufficient punishment - stupid EU laws - you should not be a criminal and if you are you should loose more than just your freedom IMHO. And sorry I am not paying for the procedure - I do not want to pay for it for good people - IT IS NOT AN ILLNESS it is just being selfish.
 
Actually you lose your right to freedom of choice.
Which is why you don't get to eat steaks every day, and don't get bitter. But I still fail to see the principal problem here. I can see a pragmatic possibilty for this to be a problem, however, I don't think this is as important as other things.

No I disagree that is insufficient punishment - stupid EU laws - you should not be a criminal and if you are you should loose more than just your freedom IMHO. And sorry I am not paying for the procedure - I do not want to pay for it for good people - IT IS NOT AN ILLNESS it is just being selfish.
I disagree. You're locked up. That is punishment enough.
 
Wow, I can't believe that he's allowed to do that.

If he and his partner are going this route, either she has had issues with fertility in the past, or he's not going be free in the near enough future to do this in person.

I mean, if he's due to get out in the next year, why can't they wait till then? Biological clocks do tick, but if having to wait for a year is putting you over the edge, then you need to re-think this. (in my opinion)

It didn't say in the article how long he's going to be in jail. So I got the impression that he's going to be in jail for a while. If so, why father a child you wont get to see? You'll miss the birth at the very least.

And as a woman, why would I want to get pregnant knowing that I'm going to be (essentially) a single parent with no support? Financially or physically?

To do so willingly would mean (to me) that she is financially well off. If so, why does she need the government to pay for it? If she's not that well off, then why in the Hell have another child?

Kids are expensive, dangit! I know. I have two of the little wallet drainers. :p
 
I don't see what the big deal is. Do they not have conjugal visits in the UK like they do here?
 
Nope. The only sex that happens in prison in Ukania is something you don't want to think about and may or may not be consensual. With the exception of the odd prison officer of the opposite sex which happens occasionally, makes the press and leads to said officer losing their job, pension etc etc.

More on the story from today's Telegraph and although we still don't know the length of his sentence we are told that the couple were undergoing IVF before he was sentenced. It seems however is was a decision of the prisons minister who, if you can't be arsed to read the whole article, last year suggested that inmates should be allowed parties and be allowed to attend comedy workshops at taxpayer expense. All this at a time when government spending is being slashed across the board. Nice one, Crispin!

A valid point is however made that with many law-abiding, childless couples on the waiting list for NHS IVF treatment why the hell should these guys get special treatment.
 
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