Prisoner granted right to father child from jail!

jmsprovan

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Nope. The only sex that happens in prison in Ukania is something you don't want to think about and may or may not be consensual. With the exception of the odd prison officer of the opposite sex which happens occasionally, makes the press and leads to said officer losing their job, pension etc etc.

More on the story from today's Telegraph and although we still don't know the length of his sentence we are told that the couple were undergoing IVF before he was sentenced. It seems however is was a decision of the prisons minister who, if you can't be arsed to read the whole article, last year suggested that inmates should be allowed parties and be allowed to attend comedy workshops at taxpayer expense. All this at a time when government spending is being slashed across the board. Nice one, Crispin!

A valid point is however made that with many law-abiding, childless couples on the waiting list for NHS IVF treatment why the hell should these guys get special treatment.
If they were getting IVF before he was jailed then they aren't getting special treatment, they are just continuing the cycles that every couple is given and once again, it is the woman who has committed no crime who has to go through the treatment, all he has to do is jizz in a cup.

You really are making a big deal out of an absolute non-story.
 

MWF

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OK so I presume your location of Alba means Scotland right? So you can't have been totally immune to the effects of austerity measures in the UK?

Let me put it to you this way. The prisoner is spending time at Her Majesty's Pleasure, but at taxpayer expense. Assuming the IVF isn't being funded by the couple themselves from the proceeds of crime then it too is being paid for by the taxpayer. To produce a child who will almost certainly be supported on benefits, at taxpayer expense, at a time when those of us who stay within the law are seeing swingeing cuts to government spending which don't just affect those employed by the government and those who avail themselves of publicly funded services but have a knock-on effect for the wider economy.

I realise the expense is a drop in the ocean compared to the economy as a whole but the issue here is that a transgressor is getting what he wants at a time when the law-abiding across the country are feeling the pinch.
 

jmsprovan

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OK so I presume your location of Alba means Scotland right? So you can't have been totally immune to the effects of austerity measures in the UK?

Let me put it to you this way. The prisoner is spending time at Her Majesty's Pleasure, but at taxpayer expense. Assuming the IVF isn't being funded by the couple themselves from the proceeds of crime then it too is being paid for by the taxpayer. To produce a child who will almost certainly be supported on benefits, at taxpayer expense, at a time when those of us who stay within the law are seeing swingeing cuts to government spending which don't just affect those employed by the government and those who avail themselves of publicly funded services but have a knock-on effect for the wider economy.

I realise the expense is a drop in the ocean compared to the economy as a whole but the issue here is that a transgressor is getting what he wants at a time when the law-abiding across the country are feeling the pinch.
You don't know anything about his situation, he could be a businessman in for Tax fraud. Assuming straight off the bat that because he is in jail means he and his wife are low life dolescum is wrong.
 

MWF

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You're right, I don't know, I was simply working on probability. But let's assume what you just posited is correct for a moment. He is in a low security facility because of a white collar crime, that he and his partner have the funds to pay for the IVF and to care for the child without any burden to the taxpayer.

The fact is that he sacrificed certain liberties at the point of transgression which should be removed for the duration of the custodial sentence. And even if this particular inmate is non-violent, educated, of independent means and guilty only of a paper crime it opens the doors for abuse of the system by the less scrupulous. The thin end of the wedge as I mentioned earlier.
 

jmsprovan

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You're right, I don't know, I was simply working on probability. But let's assume what you just posited is correct for a moment. He is in a low security facility because of a white collar crime, that he and his partner have the funds to pay for the IVF and to care for the child without any burden to the taxpayer.

The fact is that he sacrificed certain liberties at the point of transgression which should be removed for the duration of the custodial sentence. And even if this particular inmate is non-violent, educated, of independent means and guilty only of a paper crime it opens the doors for abuse of the system by the less scrupulous. The thin end of the wedge as I mentioned earlier.
If they have paid their national insurance then there is no reason why they shouldn't be allowed IVF on the NHS.

There will always be people trying to push the boundaries of the legal system for as long as there are lawyers who will get massive payoffs at the end of the cases, that's just life in the 21st century unfortunately.
 

MWF

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National insurance doesn't pay for the NHS, is funds state pensions. Although that point is moot. I don't give a stuff whether this guy has paid his taxes in the past and is therefore entitled to IVF on the NHS nor do I have a problem with it even if he has, once he has paid his debt to society which is what a prison sentence used to mean.

The sad fact is you are right about the lawyers and the 21st century but my question remains as to whether it is right that this should have been allowed to happen or happen again in the future. My own feeling is that it shouldn't. A prison sentence is supposed to be a punishment and I for one believe it is high time the phrase "Human Rights" along with "Political Correctness" and "Health and Safety" should be banned and replaced with some good, old-fashioned common sense.
 

nomix

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Nope. The only sex that happens in prison in Ukania is something you don't want to think about and may or may not be consensual. With the exception of the odd prison officer of the opposite sex which happens occasionally, makes the press and leads to said officer losing their job, pension etc etc.

More on the story from today's Telegraph and although we still don't know the length of his sentence we are told that the couple were undergoing IVF before he was sentenced. It seems however is was a decision of the prisons minister who, if you can't be arsed to read the whole article, last year suggested that inmates should be allowed parties and be allowed to attend comedy workshops at taxpayer expense. All this at a time when government spending is being slashed across the board. Nice one, Crispin!

A valid point is however made that with many law-abiding, childless couples on the waiting list for NHS IVF treatment why the hell should these guys get special treatment.
Yes, what arse. Perhaps that kind of workshops and programs might even make them into better people, heaven bloody forbid.
 

That American Girl

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You don't know anything about his situation, he could be a businessman in for Tax fraud. Assuming straight off the bat that because he is in jail means he and his wife are low life dolescum is wrong.
Edit...the article doesn't say what his crime was...
 
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