Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

CrzRsn

Mr. Fedewhatever
DONOR
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
17,074
Location
Motor City, Michigan
Car(s)
13 Ford Mustang GT, 17 Ford Fiesta ST
Had a Gladiator Rubicon last night. I REALLY liked it. Driving it home, I didn't hit more than 55mph and it seemed like a great commuter. Later in the night I got up to freeway speeds, and at that point the solid front axle made itself evident over bumps (though it wasn't as bad as I expected) and you got some wind noise from the hardtop. Speaker setup also wasn't great since you can't have any in the doors, but messing around with the EQ, I found a setup that was acceptable. Now I'm thinking I should be on the lookout for a "cheap" used first model year Rubi in a few years when I'm replacing the Fiesta.
 

GRtak

Forum Addict
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
18,824
Location
Michigan USA
I'm glad I can always rely on you guys not to convince me not to do dumb things.

... Waiting for the owner to be back in town so he can get me the maintenance records for this big dumb ambulance thing.

We rather encourage other people to do stupid things so we can,

A)learn why this was not a good idea,

B) so we have the opportunity to see the comedy that results from said stupid idea,

C) get to cheer as it all comes together and actually works,

D) use this stupid idea to dream about our own stupid ideas, and maybe even hone it a bit to get to see others cheer for us.
 

rickhamilton620

has a fetish for terrible cars
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
16,704
Location
Yoe, PA
Car(s)
2012 Kia Forte EX
Back on the rear seat reminder talk - Hyundai/Kia has two tiers of rear seat reminder on the Palisade and Santa Fe.

The basic system uses door switch logic like the competitive systems out there and only alerts the driver through the MID.

The premium system uses a ultrasonic occupancy sensor in addition to the door switch logic - if the sensor detects motion after the vehicle is exited and locked, the system triggers the panic alarm and sends notifications to phones via Blue Link telematics.

Interestingly enough, all Tellurides come with the premium rear seat reminder regardless of trim.
 

CraigB

Ich bin ein Kartoffel
DONOR
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
12,670
Location
SWMO
Car(s)
Mustang SVO - Nissan Frontier Pro-4X & Altima
I'm glad I can always rely on you guys not to convince me not to do dumb things.

... Waiting for the owner to be back in town so he can get me the maintenance records for this big dumb ambulance thing.
Only thing I can think, if it's a DT you are golden. But the T444 may not be turbocharged, which I'm sure you know, would be a dog for towing.

Our 1992 E350 7.3 non-turbo ambulance did great on the highway, running 70-75 no problem, but I wouldn't want to hutch a trailer to it and try pull it.
 

Perc

Very Odd Looking Vehicular Object
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,757
Location
Finland
Car(s)
4x4 diesel barge
One of the biggest annoyances I have with modern cars actually
My car has keyless start and I love it. I get in, press the ignition and grab the seatbelt while the engine fires up. The keys stay in the pocket where they belong.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,506
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
My car has keyless start and I love it. I get in, press the ignition and grab the seatbelt while the engine fires up. The keys stay in the pocket where they belong.
Insanely easy to steal and the only benefit it really has is if you have that whole wave your foot to open trunk thing.
 

Anesthesia

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
1,085
Location
Turku Finland
Car(s)
Civic 1.6i-16(HB), civic 1.6i(sed), 93 Kawa VN1500
Insanely easy to steal and the only benefit it really has is if you have that whole wave your foot to open trunk thing.
Locks are there to keep the honest people honest. For the ones that actually want to steal your car it doesn't matter what it starts with.
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,506
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
Locks are there to keep the honest people honest. For the ones that actually want to steal your car it doesn't matter what it starts with.
You can check the "all your cars are belong to us" thread for more but here is just a sample. https://www.wired.com/2017/04/just-pair-11-radio-gadgets-can-steal-car/

Security is not about making things impossible to penetrate it is to make them hard enough that most wouldn't even bother trying. Getting either one of my cars requires first getting inside, then defeating the immobilizer and steering lock. Getting @Perc's (or any other car that uses those silly proximity keys) requires nothing more than a $20 signal repeater. Which is why say UK's car thefts nearly doubled following a long downward trend.
 

Anesthesia

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
1,085
Location
Turku Finland
Car(s)
Civic 1.6i-16(HB), civic 1.6i(sed), 93 Kawa VN1500
And I'm saying that they're never going to be secure for the ones that absolutely want to steal a specific car. Likelihood of that happening is probably very minimal. As it happens, I saw this a few days ago. Thieves taking a very expensive Lamborghini Aventador SVJ from a locked yard. The car was later found.
https://speedsociety.com/thieves-stealing-lamborghini-aventador-svj/
 

prizrak

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
20,506
Location
No, sleep, till, BROOKLYN
Car(s)
11 Xterra Pro-4x, 12 'stang GT
And I'm saying that they're never going to be secure for the ones that absolutely want to steal a specific car. Likelihood of that happening is probably very minimal. As it happens, I saw this a few days ago. Thieves taking a very expensive Lamborghini Aventador SVJ from a locked yard. The car was later found.
https://speedsociety.com/thieves-stealing-lamborghini-aventador-svj/
Again
Security is not about making things impossible to penetrate it is to make them hard enough that most wouldn't even bother trying.
 

EyeMWing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2008
Messages
4,963
Location
MD, Amish Country PA
Car(s)
Many things, none of them working.
Getting @Perc's (or any other car that uses those silly proximity keys) requires nothing more than a $20 signal repeater.
This is incorrect for any car correctly implementing a 4-way rolling code system.

Using such a system, the following 4 codes must be captured:
  1. Car to key "wakeup" (you can capture this by walking nearby while the car is parked)
  2. Key to car "unlock" (you can capture this by broadcasting #1 near the key)
  3. Car to key "ready to start" (you can capture this by broadcasting #2 while physically sitting INSIDE the car)
  4. Car to key "start" (you can capture this by broadcasting #3 near the key)
Each code for each of those 4 actions is used exactly one time ever, and cannot be replayed if you actually use it live on the car.

That is, getting into and starting a car with a properly implemented keyless system requires 4 "keys", each of which will only ever work once.

Getting into and starting a car with a purely mechanical key system requires a maximum of 2 keys that never change (if your doors and ignition are separate like an 80's Chrysler - 1 key for everything else). Or, you know, a sufficiently large amount of force.

Getting into and starting a car with a hybrid key+transponder system requires a maximum of 3 keys that never change (again, up to 2 physical keys and 1 RFID-like tag)

Getting into a more modern smart key system requires a maximum of 1 physical key that never changes and 1 rolling transponder code that only works once.

Admittedly, I don't know what makes and models do it right (car manufacturers are notoriously bad at electronics and HOPELESS at security), but that's what they SHOULD be doing from a security perspective. Physical keys are utterly useless if the attacker has unchallenged access to the thing they're attacking. Period, end of story. I have a very strong suspicion the Subaru-Toyota system the BRZ uses is one of these (some of the weird symptoms of having an FR-S door on the car line up with that approach) and the Subaru Ascent system is almost assuredly one of these by reading through the manuals.

Incidentally, if you look at the security footage from the high end Lambo drive-off theft a few weeks ago, it's pretty clear that the thieves are getting #3 above by skimming it off a key sitting near a door or window or something when they get into the car, then get out and fuck off for 20 minutes before coming back and starting the car.

Further, you can prevent the capture of #2 and #4 from your key by putting the key in "powersave" mode.

Finally, it's a few hundred bucks to about $2000 in equipment, not $20. Plus all the operational complexity and damn-near-burglary. You're WAY less exposed buying or stealing a tow truck or trailer with a winch. Or, you know, the relay attack. Which is like $20 worth of gear but still requires getting right up in the key's face, and the key being active, which is just crappy opsec.

I can use astrophotography equipment to photograph your keys with sufficient resolution to duplicate them from 100 yards or more:
3556202
 
Last edited:
Top