Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

prizrak

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You do know that's the accident logo, not "car not working" right?
Dude his clearly trying to troll

It's interesting to see people deem the posts well researched because they are long and random links are thrown in
So your problem with his posts is that he tries to clearly express his thoughts and uses external sources to back up his opinions?

Would you prefer he posts a 1 liner response with no substance or back up? Also if you think someone is wrong why not refute with facts and well thought out arguments, or simply ignore?
 
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gaasc

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I have spent 8 years on tumblr scrolling past exausting posts about how xyz was inherently evil and how anyone who disagrees is an abuse apologist or something. This feels pretty tame in comparison
So that's why I'm able to deal with it. Though my tour was only about four years actually

So your problem with his posts is that he tries to clearly express his thoughts and uses external sources to back up his opinions?

Would you prefer he posts a 1 liner response with no substance or back up? Also if you think someone is wrong why not refute with facts and well thought out arguments, or simply ignore?
Clearly the solution is a one liner with a link that takes him to the wiki where he has stored all this data over the years.
Wait, that would keep it unsubstantiated so he would need more links in the article.
But then the articles would be too long and people may be confused on which bit they need.
Maybe he could just post the relevant part of it here with all the relevant sources :p

Note the :p . We're all trying to get along well again now, the :p means joke.

On a more serious note, you all realize that since he posted that, Jay has showed up a couple of times here, seems much happier with his life, posts with some frequency on social media and has kept in touch with select few FG members, yes?

On another, more silly note: to test new mitsu EFI, my dad and I had about five mile drives of it. He drove the first five miles and was fine. I drove the next leg. AC Broke, the dash doesn't illuminate, a taillight bulb fell down and we lost reverse lights.

This is why I insist on a personal shakedown myself :-|:LOL:
 
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Der Stig

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I think the voices of those singled out have gotten louder because many have stopped posting here entirely.

I miss the diversity of voices and opinions on FG, but as with the passage of time, many of us have moved on to 'real life' and with issues the boards have had, they have lost their luster a bit.

Certainly, I hope that more people come back to post more often. It's understandable that walls of text, threadcrapping, and dissecting of people's commentary is frustrating. I have heard these rumblings of discontent for some time and it's not unfounded.

There are people here with stubborn opinions and unrelenting fervor for whatever. They may differ from your own thoughts and feelings. If it's a waste of time to read or provide a rebuttal, skip it. The immovable object cannot be moved, the unstoppable force cannot be stopped. Not saying that it's right or that some people shouldn't have a large helping of humble pie or a cup of STFU from time to time, but the thought of banning people based on opinions is wrong, period. If it's really bothersome, put that person on ignore. Job done.

TL;DR don't feed the trolls.

During the countless FWD vs RWD debates that have popped up over the years, I just treat it like a newspaper. Skip forward until there's something I actually am interested in.

There's no reason to let one 'side' win by making FG a one man show or by disappearing from the boards entirely. I'd hate to see this forum, full of many people who I consider good friends, die an ignominious death.
 

Beni

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Dude his clearly trying to troll


So your problem with his posts is that he tries to clearly express his thoughts and uses external sources to back up his opinions?

Would you prefer he posts a 1 liner response with no substance or back up? Also if you think someone is wrong why not refute with facts and well thought out arguments, or simply ignore?
Hm, no. Spamming is sort of the opposite of clearly expressing thoughts, isn't it? With him everything is pressed into 3 or 4 simplistic narrative molds and then mashed up with the usual tired clichés. Also I was saying that his links aren't always credible but apparently just a couple of links thrown in seem to be good enough to make some people think it's well researched and backed up and I guess he bets on people just not really checking them.

I don't have the time of day or interest to go around reading all the spam, making arguments so of course I mostly ignore it and just don't read the forums anymore. Infact so many people I talk to don't read the forums anymore because it's just the same shitshow all over and that is a bit sad after all the effort that went into them, isn't it?


:edit: Also it's not really my style to tell people what to do, it's more of a suggestion on how to not bore others to death.
 
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prizrak

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So you don't want to take the time to:
go around reading all the spam, making arguments so of course I mostly ignore it
And then complain that:
it's just the same shitshow all over
How do you expect to have any kind of discussion if you basically refuse to engage in any? Also this is, mostly, a car forum so yes there will always be some topics that come up time and again. Like auto vs manual, drivetrain vs drivetrain, EVs vs real cars ;), etc...
 

Beni

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So I can't complain about the spam as long as I don't partake in it? Can't I just say it's boring and mostly pointless, do I have to refute every point made before I can judge the boringness? Are we not taking the boringness to a good amount of people as given and do we have to prove it first? Is the number of people who left or ignore the spam proof enough of the boringness?

There's certain topics that naturally reoccur and other topics that are just hamfistedly led down well trodden paths and not given the chance to become anything interesting. That's what I mean by saying they're pressed into a low number of preestablished narratives.
 

prizrak

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So I can't complain about the spam as long as I don't partake in it?
I'm saying that if you are not going to participate in the discussion then how can you expect a discussion? It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy in a sense, you get bored/annoyed by what someone posts and you don't bother responding. Others follow suit and eventually you see what you think is a few posters "killing" threads. But the threads are dead because you (collective you here) are not posting anything.

Perfect example is the Trump thread, look at how much discussion there was when we had some dissenting voices in there, it didn't kill the thread in any way shape or form, once the voices left it became nothing more than a few members posting news stories.
 

Beni

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Well, I get what you're saying but I guess people stopped participating in discussions when they were hit over the head with spammy walls of text repeatedly and whilst you're busy dissecting one pile another one is dumped in another thread...and since it's easy to just claim something (and find random links to "back it up") but harder and more laborious to disprove it people are kept busy with the unsatisfying task of doing that or otherwise accused of ignoring "well backed up arguments".

Then again I was always more interested in what other automotive things people were doing, news, pictures, stories. I was never really here to have arguments...it's just that these days it's mostly what's left.

I think you (prizrak) are mostly constructive and at least interested in other opinions and so I don't see you as really responsible for people leaving (my opinion) and even LeVel with the harebrained news from youtube at least seems passionate in his youthful naivity.

Nothing will change I'm sure and I guess I just had the urge to voice what I and several people that are apparently even more beyond caring than I am think before I log off for good. I don't think I'll be donating for Spectre's bandwidth next time around :D
 
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public

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On a more serious note, you all realize that since he posted that, Jay has showed up a couple of times here, seems much happier with his life, posts with some frequency on social media and has kept in touch with select few FG members, yes?
For the record, and not to drag him into this further, I did ask him if he was fine with me quoting that post he wrote in 2014. He didn't have a problem with that.
 

Dr_Grip

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I think the posts from @Beni , @Redliner and @public pretty much sum it up. It's no fun posting here anymore because every topic will boil down to either "US vs. Europe" or "Immigrants vs. Natives" // "Socialists vs. hard-working people" (aka Obama vs. Trump) and it just sucks the lifeblood out of this community. It's not that I can't stand diverse opinions, it's just that getting beaten with a star-spangled stick no matter what thread you are in is getting old real quick.

Since I joined FG, I gained a PhD, a job, a long-term partner, met some incredibly awesome people on all continents. Lost said partner, met the love of (hopefully) my life, changed jobs, changed jobs again, all in one, moved on from being a college slacker towards being an adult. Until about a year and a half ago FG has been a part of this journey, and I desperately want it to be a part of my journey into retirement. It's only 25-odd years until then.

But in order for that to be possible, FG has to become a place where the same three people don't kill any decent conversation again.

I met @LeVeL briefly about seven years ago, I have skyped with @Spectre more times than I can count and @prizrak sounds like a decent dude as well - guys, can't you see you are killing the very community you are part of, one keyboard warrior I-am-superior-to-you-all post at a time?

EDIT
: Please don't focus on the political undertones of my post - I am not trying to "make this political", merely trying to observe through the filter of a political science Ph.D.
 

Der Stig

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@prizrak

I think what @Dr_Grip is getting at are the subtle intimations, intentional or otherwise. The comments that boil down to what he described above. Anything that gives the air of superiority in any regard gets old.
 

Dr_Grip

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@prizrak

I think what @Dr_Grip is getting at are the subtle intimations, intentional or otherwise. The comments that boil down to what he described above. Anything that gives the air of superiority in any regard gets old.
I don't want to go fully political here but sometimes it feels like this: "WE ARE THE SILENT MAJORITY THAT HAS BEEN OPPRESSED BY LIBERAL ELITES TOO LONG! NOW WE HAVE FOUND OUR VOICE AND WILL INSULT AND BELITTLE YOU AS WE LIKE".
 

prizrak

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a) This is an extremely old meme about CA in the first place. And I explained the origin in the thread.
b) Where is the star spangled hammer here? I’m making fun of an idiotic local policy in the US
c) It was an inherently political discussion, while it was automotive related it was in fact a policy
Anything that gives the air of superiority in any regard gets old
I honestly fail to see any air of superiority, am I not allowed to make fun of a stupid policy now?

Also I'd like to point out that the good doctor has mentioned he has a PhD twice in a post, if we really wanna talk about "air of superiority"
WE ARE THE SILENT MAJORITY THAT HAS BEEN OPPRESSED BY LIBERAL ELITES TOO LONG! NOW WE HAVE FOUND OUR VOICE AND WILL INSULT AND BELITTLE YOU AS WE LIKE
Dunno if you realize but I am one of those liberal elites. My political positions mostly boil down to “does it make sense” and “how does it affect individuals”. Philosophically I’m mostly utilitarian
 
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Der Stig

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@prizrak Speaking in general terms, not referencing any particular post.

Edit: don't see anything wrong with @Dr_Grip stating facts there. Not like he commented that he is superior there? Just stating background?
 
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prizrak

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@prizrak Speaking in general terms, not referencing any particular post.
:dunno:
Edit: don't see anything wrong with @Dr_Grip stating facts there. Not like he commented that he is superior there? Just stating background?
He did say that he was
merely trying to observe through the filter of a political science Ph.D.
That suggests that his opinion is worth more as an expert. Though in this case I think that Blind_Io's (don't wanna drag him into here so not tagging) background would be more relevant
 

IceBone

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That suggests that his opinion is worth more as an expert.
I've been avoiding this dumpster fire behind my jumbo pot of popcorn, but I had to post just because of this post.

YES

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT MAKES HIS OPINION WORTH MORE

THAT IS HOW OUR SOCIETY WORKS
 

prizrak

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I've been avoiding this dumpster fire behind my jumbo pot of popcorn, but I had to post just because of this post.

YES

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT MAKES HIS OPINION WORTH MORE

THAT IS HOW OUR SOCIETY WORKS
Except this is not a political discussion so a PhD in politics is about as relevant as my BS in business administration or Jim's MD for that matter.
 
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