Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

LeVeL

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The crash in question was the car skidding when stopping in the rain. It was also due to the dying brakes, which I had just brought the car to the shop to have checked 2 weeks earlier.
If you locked up the brakes then your brakes are fine, it's your tires that need replacement.


If they intentionally inflated the repair costs, that's insurance fraud last I checked.
Again, do you have any evidence of this fraud?


Additionally, they waited so long to get the repairs estimated in that the appeal period ended so I could not fight the surcharge. This was my only at fault accident in 14 years of driving, a 15mph bump in a crash that failed to even dent the bumper on the bug. The damage did not go above the 500$ deductible so I had to pay for that myself. If you are doing that to obviously poor people you are in fact an asshole.
The person who was stationary and got rear-ended is an asshole for not paying for the at-fault driver's deductible?


So YEAH I think a 2500$ dollar increase on my insurance was absolutely unreasonable, given if Ihad 0 insurance and paid out of pocket it would have been . So did all the other insurance companies thankfully, my quote from the first company was actually HIGHER then last year, the surcharge from the other companies is like 700$. This company for the record has forced me to fight 2 other surcharges in which case the other person was doing something illegal.
Your premium depends less on your car and more on your record. The company is more worried about the expensive Lexus you hit that they will have to pay for because you are at fault than they are about the cheap old car you are driving. Same goes for people you might injure.


The way the laws work in this state the insurance companies can basically charge whatever they want.
That is incorrect. Rates are regulated and approved by the state.


Like I am not saying I don't deserve a surcharge at all, I cannot prove i checked my brakes and was lied to. But if you look at "one at fault accident in a decade and a half and it was at like 20mph in the rain" and make the charge so high it would have been cheaper to pay out of pocket, that is absolutely bullshit.
Again, you've shown the insurance company that you might cost them several thousand dollars by hitting a stationary Lexus. That's a risk for them. You can try getting a quote from one of the companies that offers accident forgiveness.
 

CrzRsn

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So YEAH I think a 2500$ dollar increase on my insurance was absolutely unreasonable, given if Ihad 0 insurance and paid out of pocket it would have been .
Again, the insurance increase isn't related to how much they may or maynot have paid out to you, its a risk assessment to how much they may have to pay out in the future if you damage/injure someone. A crash, even one in 14 years of driving, is an indicator of riskier behavior. They don't know if its the start of a trend or a stand-alone event so they need to protect themselves in case its the former.

That being said, many insurance policies have a first accident forgiveness features which waive the premium increase the first time you get into an accident. But, as with everything in this world, nothing is free except cheese in a mousetrap, so you're going to be paying more for first accident forgiveness upfront. Back in 2012 when I moved to Michigan and was getting quotes out here, I was being quoted about $400-500/mo for my TT on a near flawless driving record, but then GEICO came in and undercut everyone by $200/mo. When I called them to ask what the catch is, they basically said "oh no catch, we just don't have gimmics like accident forgiveness, disappearing deductibles, good driver refunds, etc so you're not paying for those 'features'". A few years later though they did add first accident forgiveness to my policy, not sure why. But it came in handy last year when I hit a small animal in New Hampshire with the Mustang.




Got a whole new bumper, better to not ask how much it cost to repaint the green metallic tri-coat....
 

katwalk

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If you locked up the brakes then your brakes are fine, it's your tires that need replacement.
My brakes had no pads left and were so damaged from being that way that I had to replace the front brakes and the axles on both sides. I had taken it in for service and specifically asked about the brakes recently.

]
Again, do you have any evidence of this fraud?

The person who was stationary and got rear-ended is an asshole for not paying for the at-fault driver's deductible?
You??? Are the one who suggested it was fraud? Like you said "they probably added on extra damage to fix". My response was that if they did in fact do that they are an asshole because they took advantage of the accident to get shit done on their car with full knowledge that it would fuck someone else over.
Your premium depends less on your car and more on your record. The company is more worried about the expensive Lexus you hit that they will have to pay for because you are at fault than they are about the cheap old car you are driving. Same goes for people you might injure.

Again, you've shown the insurance company that you might cost them several thousand dollars by hitting a stationary Lexus. That's a risk for them. You can try getting a quote from one of the companies that offers accident forgiveness.

Again, the insurance increase isn't related to how much they may or maynot have paid out to you, its a risk assessment to how much they may have to pay out in the future if you damage/injure someone. A crash, even one in 14 years of driving, is an indicator of riskier behavior. They don't know if its the start of a trend or a stand-alone event so they need to protect themselves in case its the former.
If that was true, why was the same crash, before the entire repair cost hit (which for the record was JANUARY, the crash happened in july) and bumped it from minor to major accident, a roughly 500$ surcharge? I got no citation from the cop iirc, they were rather sympathetic actually.


That being said, many insurance policies have a first accident forgiveness features which waive the premium increase the first time you get into an accident. But, as with everything in this world, nothing is free except cheese in a mousetrap, so you're going to be paying more for first accident forgiveness upfront. Back in 2012 when I moved to Michigan and was getting quotes out here, I was being quoted about $400-500/mo for my TT on a near flawless driving record, but then GEICO came in and undercut everyone by $200/mo. When I called them to ask what the catch is, they basically said "oh no catch, we just don't have gimmics like accident forgiveness, disappearing deductibles, good driver refunds, etc so you're not paying for those 'features'". A few years later though they did add first accident forgiveness to my policy, not sure why. But it came in handy last year when I hit a small animal in New Hampshire with the Mustang.
See, I am pretty sure that i had accident forgiveness but I guess they stopped offering it at all at some point.

And this is not a case like this because geico was matched the coverage with only a slight cut (200k to 100k in property damage coverage) and undercut this company by TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS. AAA offered me 1500 off. Oh and additionally, my insurance agent was actually independent, I asked her if there were cheaper options. She said no. She gets paid a percent of what i was paying.

If this was actually about risk assessment then it would not be the one single company, who for the record if you look up reviews for:
3556368



YEAH I AM PRETTY SURE IT WASN'T ABOUT ME. Like just click sort by lowest reviews if you still insist I am being unreasonable.

Edit: you know what, after reading through these I retract any mean things I said about lexus guy because APPARENTLY even though they IMMEDIATELY roll over and give their clients at fault (they gave me at fault for a guy basically illegally traveling in the breakdown lane clipping the front of my car, had to fight in court, judge seemed to consider it an easy case) they apparently never actually pay out for the other person, so the reason the "major" accident thing hit in january is probably because thats how long it took them to ACTUALLY RESPOND AND REPAIR THE GUYS CAR rip.
 
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thevictor390

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Time for new insurance? Probably true for me too, the companies are all terrible with zero reward for loyalty so you are actively encouraged to shop around every now and then. This is true for most services.
 

CrzRsn

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I mean, I always feel like reviews for services like insurance are always left by disproportionately the people who are least satisfied or feel conned out of money. I don't think I've ever seen a single company with positive feedback namely because there ultimately cannot be any positive experience, either its negative and they give you a hard time, or its neutral because they did whats expected of them. Its not like I'm going to spend my time to go to some website and say "yep, my insurance company fixed my car like I paid them to." Looking online, GEICO has 1.5 stars on Yelp, Progressive has 1.5 stars, State Farm has 1.5, Liberty Mutual has 1.5, Allstate has 1.5, Esurance has 1.0. So really your company at 2.6 is doing better than the pack. And yet, each of the aforementioned companies has millions (if not tens of millions) of account holders, most of whom likely have no issues and have only had good service with those companies.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Victor. Thats indeed the case. If you're not happy, leave. I got a Progressive policy or my ex when we were together because they were the most reasonable, but after 6 months, they jacked up the rate. When I called them asking why (no accidents or citations in that time), they said that the rate I had was just an introductory offer for the first coverage period. I felt bait-n-switched, so I said thanks, but no thanks and closed my account taking my business elsewhere. Checking my policy documents later, that term sure was there in the fine print, that I claimed to have read when I signed for the policy.
 
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katwalk

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Time for new insurance? Probably true for me too, the companies are all terrible with zero reward for loyalty so you are actively encouraged to shop around every now and then. This is true for most services.
Yeah i already switched to geico as of this week. I suspect that they might try and raise the price next year but if they do I'll just switch again.

Like again, I am not arguing I don't deserve a surcharge. Only that even though I had the shit luck to hit an expensive car, the actual accident was in fact very much a "it could happen to pretty much anyone" sort of deal. The fact that the charge jumped so much specifically due to the repair costs of the car means it wasn't about safety, only money.

Especially since I HAVE had 2 accidents when MY CAR was the one that was stationary, but they automatically gave me fault on both cases. My car skidding in the rain is at fault, but a guy hydroplaning into mine going 40 in a 25 is my fault too. So is a guy clipping my car trying to illegally pass another car.

If it was a fair thing to do, I wouldn't be able to switch companies and get a $1500-2000 discount on it. So clearly it wasn't. I won't pretend I am the most responsible driver but I adhere pretty heavily to making sure I always have time and space to be able to safely stop. I have been frequently beeped at even in the fiat for refusing to take left hand turns I know I could technically make because better safe then sorry so the idea i was being charged that for safety reasons is kind of insulting.
 

Redliner

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Auto insurance:
My police ends by the end of the month. I'll renew even though I plan on selling the car soon because the last thing I need right now is a prospective buyer crashing my car or taking it for a permanent test drive.
Good thing I can be reimbursed if I cancel it later.
I expect to pay around 600USD fo the whole year.
 
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ScarFace88

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On other topics, a friend just brought up a ClubLexus forum post about a guy who drained his tranny while trying to do an oil change, and that sent me down a nostalgia hunt......

https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/subaru-tech/455091-possible-blown-engine-need-urgent-help.html
https://www.audiforums.com/forum/off-topic-5/hey-guys-please-help-my-mods-gone-wrong-80267/


Good times on the Internet
There's this one as well...
https://mustangforums.com/forum/5-0l-general-discussion/368307-i-m-done-with-this-car.html
 

Spectre

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Yeah i already switched to geico as of this week. I suspect that they might try and raise the price next year but if they do I'll just switch again.
Geico is more evil than most insurance companies because they are on record as donating tons of radar guns and other speed enforcement/revenue generating devices to police departments. Not much more evil, but still. :p

Like again, I am not arguing I don't deserve a surcharge. Only that even though I had the shit luck to hit an expensive car, the actual accident was in fact very much a "it could happen to pretty much anyone" sort of deal. The fact that the charge jumped so much specifically due to the repair costs of the car means it wasn't about safety, only money.
Ummmm, that's exactly the point of liability insurance and how your policy price is calculated, though it varies by company and how they run their actuarial tables. Generally, if you hit a derelict Toyota Echo, your rate hike will be relatively minimal. If you hit something like, oh, a certain CL550 that's in my family, your rate hike is going to be substantial.

NONE of this is about safety, kat. Insurance premiums are calculated based on the financial exposure and risk of the insurance company issuing the policy. If you are unlikely to force them to pay money, you will (generally) have to pay less for coverage. The more likely you are to make them pay money, and the more money you are likely to make them pay out, the more you will have to pay to obtain coverage. It has no direct relationship to safety, other than potentially making you want to be as safe as possible to keep your rates low.

Especially since I HAVE had 2 accidents when MY CAR was the one that was stationary, but they automatically gave me fault on both cases. My car skidding in the rain is at fault, but a guy hydroplaning into mine going 40 in a 25 is my fault too. So is a guy clipping my car trying to illegally pass another car.
Unless you live in a no-fault state, either something weird was going on or you were illegally or improperly stopped when hit - or had a malfunction that contributed to the crash (no rear lights at night, etc) - if you were found at legal fault. It should also be noted that you DO NOT have to be at fault in an accident to have your rates go up. Insurance companies will sometimes raise your rates if you are unlucky and get hit, even though they didn't have to pay out any money in the event, because they consider you unlucky and therefore have raised your chances of being the cause of them having to pay out in future. You may not be legally at fault, but still have to pay more anyway. This is absolutely true in no-fault states.

If it was a fair thing to do, I wouldn't be able to switch companies and get a $1500-2000 discount on it. So clearly it wasn't. I won't pretend I am the most responsible driver but I adhere pretty heavily to making sure I always have time and space to be able to safely stop. I have been frequently beeped at even in the fiat for refusing to take left hand turns I know I could technically make because better safe then sorry so the idea i was being charged that for safety reasons is kind of insulting.
Different insurance companies factor risk and price policies differently. Right now, I pay about $200 a year to cover both my motorcycles with Company A. With the same exact bikes, driving record, residence and everything else, company B quoted me $2100 for the same coverage because their actuaries believe that my 919 is a high risk motorcycle from their company history. Company C quoted me $750 per year for the same coverage because my 700 is a vintage bike and they believe they will have to pay more to repair/replace it should something happen - they don't care about the 919. Company D refuses to cover anyone with a 919 at any price, Company E will give me a good rate on the 919 but won't insure any pre-1999 bike and so on.

Back when I had my F-350, about half the insurance companies I approached refused to insure it (or any older one ton truck) as a personal vehicle due to how many ridiculously expensive claims they'd had to pay out. Apparently there are a large number of dishonest people insuring them as personal vehicles then using them for contracting business - and running them through houses, dumping them in pools, driving them onto and collapsing wooden walkway bridges, all the sort of "Bad Contractor" things. Other companies had not had the same experience of mass payouts, so they were happy to insure it (albeit at different rates).

Safety has nothing to do with the price of your insurance - only the payout risk you represent has anything to do with the price.
 
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LeVeL

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My brakes had no pads left and were so damaged from being that way that I had to replace the front brakes and the axles on both sides. I had taken it in for service and specifically asked about the brakes recently.
Maybe so, but you still need new tires if you're locking up your wheels under braking.


...the reason the "major" accident thing hit in january is probably because thats how long it took them to ACTUALLY RESPOND AND REPAIR THE GUYS CAR rip.
Did your policy renew in January? They can't add a surcharge to an existing policy, they do it on renewal. It also doesn't matter one bit when (if at all) the guy fixed his Lexus - they do an appraisal within a few days of the crash and pay out the claim (unless it's complicated by injury or dispute over fault or something).


Like again, I am not arguing I don't deserve a surcharge. Only that even though I had the shit luck to hit an expensive car, the actual accident was in fact very much a "it could happen to pretty much anyone" sort of deal.
You hit a stationary vehicle - it's entirely your fault and not at all something that could happen to an attentive and careful driver. I know - I've done it and it was entirely my fault.


The fact that the charge jumped so much specifically due to the repair costs of the car means it wasn't about safety, only money.
Correct, insurance is about money.


Especially since I HAVE had 2 accidents when MY CAR was the one that was stationary, but they automatically gave me fault on both cases.

My car skidding in the rain is at fault, but a guy hydroplaning into mine going 40 in a 25 is my fault too. So is a guy clipping my car trying to illegally pass another car.
I've personally audited hundreds of auto claims in Massachusetts. Sorry, but there has to be more to your two stories if you were found at fault.


If it was a fair thing to do, I wouldn't be able to switch companies and get a $1500-2000 discount on it.
Are you sure you didn't get a 6mo policy from GEICO? As I mentioned before, rates are regulated in Mass so there really shouldn't be THAT much variance between companies.
 

Spectre

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There was another one like that that I can't find right now - guy was using what he thought was spray polish and cleaner to detail his motorcycle. Instead, he'd accidentally grabbed the similar looking can of chain wax (equivalent of gear oil only WAY stickier) and somehow didn't notice the difference in appearance or smell - and completely covered his motorcycle in it. He only figured it out when he went to wipe it off and the towel immediately stuck to the bike...
 

katwalk

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Ummmm, that's exactly the point of liability insurance and how your policy price is calculated, though it varies by company and how they run their actuarial tables. Generally, if you hit a derelict Toyota Echo, your rate hike will be relatively minimal. If you hit something like, oh, a certain CL550 that's in my family, your rate hike is going to be substantial.

NONE of this is about safety, kat. Insurance premiums are calculated based on the financial exposure and risk of the insurance company issuing the policy. If you are unlikely to force them to pay money, you will (generally) have to pay less for coverage. The more likely you are to make them pay money, and the more money you are likely to make them pay out, the more you will have to pay to obtain coverage. It has no direct relationship to safety, other than potentially making you want to be as safe as possible to keep your rates low.
Yeah but if you are labeling it as "risk" you would think it would have something to do with how bad you fucked up and how likely you are to do it yourself. A rate hike like that I would expect from something like a speeding ticket, not a mistake literally every driver will make at some point.

Unless you live in a no-fault state, either something weird was going on or you were illegally or improperly stopped when hit - or had a malfunction that contributed to the crash (no rear lights at night, etc) - if you were found at legal fault. It should also be noted that you DO NOT have to be at fault in an accident to have your rates go up. Insurance companies will sometimes raise your rates if you are unlucky and get hit, even though they didn't have to pay out any money in the event, because they consider you unlucky and therefore have raised your chances of being the cause of them having to pay out in future. You may not be legally at fault, but still have to pay more anyway. This is absolutely true in no-fault states.
I got both at faults revoked by taking them to court over it, but that doesn't change the fact that they looked at a case where the other guy's car was in a place it shouldn't have legally been and gave me 100% fault. Oh also I had a witness for the accident that was telling me "don't worry I saw everything, people do what he did all the time it's awful". This also cost me my deductible which they do not refund when you get their decision overturned.

They did this to me twice. The specific reason I went to gieco is when on the phone with them asking how the fuck he wasn't at least 50% at fault the girl said "idk I'll try but he has gieco and they don't compromise". WOW. I feel kind of bad for her because that probably got her fired and she seemed at least vaguely sympathetic.

I'd probably be less pissed if not for the incompetence. Like I didn't immediately switch insurance, maybe the decision was fair. But after this recent incident I am just disgusted. I had an independent agent too, who was supposed to have my back with this shit, but apparently lied to me when I asked her to check other companies rates given she said the maximum difference would be like maybe 200$.

Hilarous though: Do you know what their argument was? That you legally can pass on the right anywhere your car will fit. Now I both looked it up and found otherwise (iirc the cars have to be stopped to take a turn, this case was someone stopped to LET ME GO and he got impatient and went around them and hit me) and the judge sided with me confirming it, but can you imagine if it were true.

I mean I guess if you believe that it SHOULD cost me an extra 2k to be insured, because I have a turbocharged shoe that's main selling point is how fast if can zip between cars, and you just gave me premission to basically lane share on a very large number of roads. But I am not enough of an asshole to do that sort of thing anyway unless it's to avoid another dangerous situation.
 

CrzRsn

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A rate hike like that I would expect from something like a speeding ticket, not a mistake literally every driver will make at some point.
Other things aside, theres no such thing as a mistake. "Mistakes" cost money. A "mistake" can total a car. A "mistake" can injure someone. Those are all risks your insurance company has to take into account. They don't care if it can happen to anyone, point is that it happened to you, and it can happen again. Since they're in the business of tracking statistics, you just became one and added to the overall count. My suggestion is get a dashcam, if its truly a freak accident caused by situations outside your control, the video evidence may at least help your case, though the insurance company probably will just run your policy through an algorithm anyways.

My premium has gone up every 6 months for the last 3 years. Every 6 months I call and ask why and every 6 months I get the answer that "drivers in your area are getting worse, there are more uninsured drivers in your area, there are more accidents in your area, and cars are getting more expensive to repair." All of those things are true per officially released statistics so I can't really blame them. As much as I hate the fact that I pay more every renewal despite a flawless driving record (last speeding ticket was in 2013, last years animal accident was forgiven + they treat damage by wild animals differently than collisions with cars/people/property), I understand that the chances of me getting hit are going up which means the chance of me making a claim is going up which means the insurance company has to account for that.

Also I don't know remember how MA handles it (its been over 7 years since I moved away), but in many states, even if you're not at fault your premium can go up after an accident.
 
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