Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

RdKetchup

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Saw 2 Supras yesterday night on my drive to get some food, a mk3 and a mk2.

I've never been a fan of the mk2, and while I thought the mk3 had not aged well in pictures, the one from last night was actually pretty good looking.

Grey, and as far as I can tell, unmolested.
 

prizrak

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Someone was telling me that there was some sort of a special edition gtr with a v10 in the early 00s, they called it a Rafael or similar but i can’t find a single reference to anything like that. Does the hive mind have any clue?
 

katwalk

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A LOT of cars have the ambient temp sensor there. Because you know, ideally you want to report the temperature of the environment rather than the temperature of the engine, or the heat reflecting off the road
Idk man because it has never been any more accurate then the bug is. It is usually off by the same amount and takes the same amount of time to adjust the temperature after going from parked to moving.
Also why not put it idk, under the damn spoiler or something? It's not like the mirror is the only place not next to the ground.
[/quote]
Its not really a new thing, its been the industry standard for decades. And frankly its done for people who don't know anything about cars. You say the CEL gives you a panic attack - now imagine the panic attack a random Joe or Jane (aka the VAST majority of the customer base) would get if a saw "P0305 Cylinder #5 Misfire" or "P0136 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction." Both of those sound REALLY bad to someone who doesn't know anything about how cars work. With a CEL, they just go down to their local mechanic who can read the code, interpret it, and explain it in a way they'd understand - aka how much money and time it will take to go away.

Early OBD-I (and some pre-OBD) cars could tell you more-or-less the exact problem by flashing the CEL in a set pattern, but again, the random Joe would have no idea of how to initiate the flashing sequence or how to interpret it, so it didn't really matter.

And yes, I suppose you can implement an onboard database and readout in some sort of "advanced" mode for people who think they understand, but that would be an HMI nightmare and add on a lot of cost to the cars. Its not worth it. Those few competent customers can go buy a code reader off Amazon for $30 which really accomplishes the same thing as what you're asking for.
[/QUOTE]

Ok i guess that is a fair point, but here's a flipped one: if your last 5 CELs have been ridiculous nothingness problems how fast are you going to take it in when it really IS the engine? I'm not saying you have to be that specific either. "Service [system]" would suffice I think, and likely give a general idea of urgency. Oh bonus points: the car did NOT give me a check engine light immediately when the intercooler was causing it to go into limp mode. It took it happening like 3x.

Ahem.

Unsurprisingly, there seems to be no shortage of replacement mirrors, which one presumes have an intact sensor in them, for relatively cheap near you.
The fact you can find them for cheaper then the dealership price doesn't mean it isn't a terrible design that makes you have to throw out the entire assembly of a completely functional car part, presumably so they can charge that much for it, over a sensor that from what I can tell isn't even misreading anything.
 

CrzRsn

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Also why not put it idk, under the damn spoiler or something? It's not like the mirror is the only place not next to the ground.
Think about the bigger picture. You've got 500s, 500 Abarths, 500Cs, 500C Abarths all rolling down the line at the same time. Not to mention all the other special editions. Some car may have spoilers, some cars may have other spoilers, some cars may not have any spoilers. Instead of making it complicated and having it be in location A on some cars, in location B on others, in location C on the cabrios, etc, just commonize it for the entire range. Furthermore, you want the sensor somwhere where you already have a wire harness going to it so you're not paying an assembly guy to lay down more wire harnesses. And then you got the rest of the family, the 500X and the 500L - while those look like they have different mirror housings, I'm willing to bet you have internal brackety that's common. And boom, just like that one engineer designed a part thats used on dozens of variants across a handful of models, and believe it or not, that cost saving is passed onto you, the customer.

Ok i guess that is a fair point, but here's a flipped one: if your last 5 CELs have been ridiculous nothingness problems how fast are you going to take it in when it really IS the engine?
Honestly, your car's got demons that need exorcized. I've owned my Mustang for just shy of 7 years and have not had a single CEL in that time (knock on wood). The Fiesta is also coming up to a year and a half without a CEL.

Or just get a Bluetooth OBD dongle, pair it to your phone, and find an app that will give you an instant notification when you get an issue. Downside there is that you then can't pair the phone to the infotainment system at the same time.

"Service [system]" would suffice I think, and likely give a general idea of urgency.
Your car already has that. Looking at the owners manual for 2017 Fiat 500s, you got the following red telltales:
  • Air Bag Warning Light
  • Electric Power Steering Fail Warning
  • Brake Warning Light
  • Battery Charge Warning Light
  • Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) Warning Light
  • Oil Pressure Warning Light
  • Engine Temperature Warning Light
  • Transmission Fault Warning Light
And the following yellow telltales:
  • Tire Pressure Monitoring Indicator Light
  • Electronic Stability Control (ESC) Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light
  • Engine Check/Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) - solid or flashing to indicate severity
  • Anti-Lock Brake (ABS) Indicator Light
  • Generic Warning Indicator Light
  • Exterior Bulb Failure Indicator Light
  • Stop Light Failure Indicator Light
Thats a pretty extensive list of system specific warnings.

Oh bonus points: the car did NOT give me a check engine light immediately when the intercooler was causing it to go into limp mode. It took it happening like 3x.
Well that a whole separate problem that wouldn't be addressed by adding an error read out to the vehicle. That sounds like shit engineering.

The fact you can find them for cheaper then the dealership price doesn't mean it isn't a terrible design that makes you have to throw out the entire assembly of a completely functional car part, presumably so they can charge that much for it, over a sensor that from what I can tell isn't even misreading anything.
You can always find a 500 in a junk yard, take the mirror apart, pull the sensor or bracket or whatever it is that is broken on yours, pay for just that one small bit, take your mirror apart, and mend it. But keep in mind, often for aesthetic purpose parts are made to snap together in a way that makes them impossible to take apart without breaking or damaging, so that may be the reason why you need to buy a whole new mirror.
 
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CrzRsn

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Someone was telling me that there was some sort of a special edition gtr with a v10 in the early 00s, they called it a Rafael or similar but i can’t find a single reference to anything like that. Does the hive mind have any clue?
Seems unlikely, Nissans never had or tried to develop a V10 to the best of my knowledge. They have worked on several V12s though, but I don't know if they ever put those into anything other than race cars. Best I could find with 10 seconds of searching was this.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/videos/a32324/nissan-r34-skyline-dodge-viper-v10-swap/
 

LeVeL

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My Acura is at 140k miles and it's about to turn 14. No CELs ever.
 

prizrak

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Seems unlikely, Nissans never had or tried to develop a V10 to the best of my knowledge. They have worked on several V12s though, but I don't know if they ever put those into anything other than race cars. Best I could find with 10 seconds of searching was this.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/videos/a32324/nissan-r34-skyline-dodge-viper-v10-swap/
I think he was talking about a Z tune, probably miss remembered the V10

(I found that Viper swapped gtr too)
 

JimCorrigan

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November 2...

Good night, soul stirring flat six.

Hello, devourer of worlds (or at least, petrol stations) hemi.
 

katwalk

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Honestly, your car's got demons that need exorcized. I've owned my Mustang for just shy of 7 years and have not had a single CEL in that time (knock on wood). The Fiesta is also coming up to a year and a half without a CEL.
Let me clarify the situation. When I say CEL over nothing, I mean CHRYSLER PROGRAMMED IT THAT WAY, not a malfunction. FCA for some absurd reason has ALL their vehicles set up this way. I know this because I have found all the info on why i have CELs on JEEP AND DODGE FORUMS. The car for reasons I do not understand is programmed to throw CELs that say "service engine" over minor issues or being slightly confused.

That being said, the CEL disappeared on it's own after a couple days so it is probably still haunted.

You can always find a 500 in a junk yard, take the mirror apart, pull the sensor or bracket or whatever it is that is broken on yours, pay for just that one small bit, take your mirror apart, and mend it. But keep in mind, often for aesthetic purpose parts are made to snap together in a way that makes them impossible to take apart without breaking or damaging, so that may be the reason why you need to buy a whole new mirror.
My point is this was designed to intentionally not be repaired over minor ass bullshit the way macbooks are glued together now so you have to throw them out.

Additionally I had to do the entire repair completely blind because I couldn't find a single example of anyone even attempting it online. Every result for fixing it was "remove plastic cover, unscrew, screw on new mirror" GEE THANKS SO HELPFUL. I had to use a "how to make mirror cap different color" one for reference for disassembling the top half and the rest was entirely guesswork.

The beetle is supposed to have electric mirrors too and they've been broken since i got it ans it never even occured to me to get it fixed when i can simply poke the mirror into correct postion and if neither that nor the sensor functioned in the fiat I would have just bought a stick on dash thermometer for like 5$ and been done with it. Having a CEL for something like that blows my mind. I dread what nonsense CEL i get next.


In other news, the beetle passed inspection and idk what to do in shop class tommorrow because I already fixed the fiat... I guess I'm giving the subaru an oil change because iirc by the sticker on it it's probably overdue.
 

katwalk

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Oh also for fun, so i needed something to pry the stupid mirror caps off since they are stuck on with plastic tabs. I had no appropriate tools and ended up using an "ear spoon" which came out of this little package:

3556532

... from the dealer who refused to let me test drive the mustang 😂

Thanks it was very helpful repairing the car i bought elsewhere!
 

CrzRsn

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The car for reasons I do not understand is programmed to throw CELs that say "service engine" over minor issues or being slightly confused.
I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? You're complaining that the car if notifying you about an issue? Be it minor or major, I'd want a notification. Trust me, most cars are no different. The question isn't IF the car throws a CEL over an issue, its how frequently it does it. Let me rephrase my statement, in 7 years, my Mustang has not had a single issue that would cause ANY light to go off (knock on wood). There are also hundred if not thousands of codes that can come up that won't trigger a CEL, and I have yet to see any of those either. The fact that you're seeing codes that often on the Fiat should be concerning. Can you give us any specific examples of what codes have come up, maybe the last 3 or 4 that you've had to deal with?

I just texted my friend who has owned a 2014 500 Abarth since late 2013 and will report back on her issue rate when I hear back.


Additionally I had to do the entire repair completely blind because I couldn't find a single example of anyone even attempting it online. Every result for fixing it was "remove plastic cover, unscrew, screw on new mirror" GEE THANKS SO HELPFUL. I had to use a "how to make mirror cap different color" one for reference for disassembling the top half and the rest was entirely guesswork.
After a quick 15 second Google Image search.



Yeah its not EXACTLY what you need, however it shows you where all the clips on the cover are, and how the get the glass off. The rest should be easy to figure out since all the internals will then be exposed so you'll be able to see where all the fasteners are.

Also Google is your friend. About 15 more seconds of Googling, I was able to find the whole Fiat 500 repair manual. ALL 8558 PAGES OF THE DAMN THING IN ONE GIANT 101MB PDF. Yes, thats not a typo, the thing is eight thousand five hundred fifty eight pages long and freely available on the internet. It actually takes the record for longest repair manual I've ever seen, the previous record was somewhere around 2000ish pages. There are quite a bit of relevant mirror instructions starting on page 56, temp sensor info on page 529 and more mirror info on page 773, followed by dozens if not hundreds of pages of DTC troubleshooting procedures.

Oh also for fun, so i needed something to pry the stupid mirror caps off since they are stuck on with plastic tabs. I had no appropriate tools and ended up using an "ear spoon" which came out of this little package:
Trim removal tools. Get them. A good set will cost you $12 on Amazon, a great set will cost you $20, a fantastic set will cost you $26. IF you plan on doing ANY work on your own car at home, they are a must have, since they're about as instrumental as a good wrench set.

EDIT: Reply from my 2014 500 Abart driving friend. In 6 years, shes had 2 CELs. Once for a knock sensor issue that was cleared and never came back, and one for a misfire that was caused by a bad spark plug.
 
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LeVeL

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Do you have like, a problem with me? Like I don't understand why you are being so aggressive about this?
...
But I don't understand why this warrants a multiple quote take down of what I am saying to I guess prove me wrong?
I don't think I agree with your overall perspective... He has spent his own time finding information for you on several occasions now, including reaching out to personal connections for Fiat information. You bought a notoriously unreliable vehicle, it's having issues, and you seem to be having a hard time fixing it - he seems to just be trying to help you with information, I don't understand why you're interpreting it as some sort of personal insult.
 

prizrak

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I think you guys are confused by what Kat is saying,
she isn’t saying she gets a ton of random CELs but rather that she got one for a working external temp sensor. Her contention is that something that minor and insignificant shouldn’t cause a scary CEL but have some sort of a less scary notification.
 

katwalk

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I think you guys are confused by what Kat is saying,
she isn’t saying she gets a ton of random CELs but rather that she got one for a working external temp sensor. Her contention is that something that minor and insignificant shouldn’t cause a scary CEL but have some sort of a less scary notification.
YES

YES THANK YOU

I have been going absolutely insane trying to convey this. My complaint was that FCA designed the mirror to be unfixable and expensive to replace, and if you are unwilling to buy a new one potentially give you a permanent check engine light. This is a general complaint about the car's design and my personal opinion. Maybe some people like having an iMirror, I do not. As many people pointed out much of this is unavoidable because its standard in new cars.

Of this specific part (05182468ac, if people want to google and compare to the diagram) what broke was the spring mechanism that controls folding the mirror down to avoid it being knocked off. It was overtwisted until it snapped into the position that released it. To fix it i had to use similar to the above diagram to remove the actual supposed to be fixable bits to even access the part i needed. I then had to use a clamp to force the spring down far enough the connector would stick out. I then had to use zip ties and picture hanger tags to hold it in place while removing the clamps, put it in place, then cut the ties and pull the tabs so it would snap back into place. It took roughly a dozen tries and 3 hours to do this, after having to figure out how it worked on my own.

Somehow I managed it, put it back together perfectly, plugged it in, works fine, CEL still there. Autozone says they can't clear it. So I was pissed because i DEFEATED THE TERRIBLE iMIRROR HOW DARE.

All the googling after has just been. Telling me what I know already. I know what the CEL were. The code for these iirc were P0073. The others were the boost leak one and the left foot braking one, which i didn't check honestly but because once i guessed that being the cause and googled to confirm i have avoided ever getting it again.

THAT is why i feel insulted like, once the car is fixed the links and pictures feel very "here kat ur dumb" when I fixed a not supposed to be fixable fiat part with a Ford Brand Ear Spoon and I've never even done an oil change that is hilarious and possibly brag worthy. I KNOW my cars are awful, unreliable and poorly designed and I am crazy to be doing repairs like that but hey. It sure is satisfying when you pull it off 😂
 

prizrak

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AZ couldn't clear your code? That's pretty odd, it should just be OBDII shit which any reader could clear. I been meaning to pick up one of these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JFRFJG6/?coliid=I2D2M8WMM2M4NE&colid=18TRCK1C222ST&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it you can buy extra PIDs for whatever model car you have.
Main reason I haven't gotten it is because I have the Ford ProCal tool and that reads all the Ford codes anyway.

Also was trying to replace the end links on my rear ARB yesterday and couldn't even budge the bolts, I'm thinking it might be due to the fact that I was using race ramps so the suspension was under load. But I also realized that I need new hardware so no point in dealing with it till I get that I guess.
 
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