Random Thoughts... [Automotive Edition]

katwalk

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So somewhat ironically it's like a half a decade older version of me being too fed up with the tiptronic to replace it with another auto when it dies.

Tbh I DID wonder why, if they already HAD shiftable automatics why the tiptronic would be a novelty in 2003 :|

Ah well I'll try to sell her on the manual. I don't think she would like the V8 one much herself even if I would have fun with it 😂
 

Spectre

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So somewhat ironically it's like a half a decade older version of me being too fed up with the tiptronic to replace it with another auto when it dies.

Tbh I DID wonder why, if they already HAD shiftable automatics why the tiptronic would be a novelty in 2003 :|

Ah well I'll try to sell her on the manual. I don't think she would like the V8 one much herself even if I would have fun with it 😂
You can also swap a Subaru engine into one and retain the rear engine position.


As for the SA gearbox itself, it wasn't really an automatic gearbox, more like a clutchless manual. You still had to shift it yourself at all times and it wasn't very good - some estimates were that it ate half or more of the power of the engine to run. It also tended to break a lot with a lot of weird failure modes; I suspect a great number of them were killed trying to climb the ascents on I-5 from LA to San Francisco, along with their manual siblings.

Tiptronic was a novelty because you could shift it yourself in an action that resembled manual shifting, but it really was a conventional automatic that it was attached to. You didn't have to move up and down the PRND32L range, you put it into a side gate and could simply punch up or down to shift accordingly, or if you chose you could leave it in D and it would behave as a conventional auto.
 

EyeMWing

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The MCM swap was way more complicated than it needed to be because they were shoehorning a shit hot turbo motor in. Any random EJ engine is going to kick the crap out of a beetle motor.

Problem there is that Subaru swaps typically retain the beetle transmission. There is a manufacturer of reverse cut Subaru front differential gears, and there's a method for locking out the "rear" (now front) but then you're doing weird exotic transmission work and need to cut up the beetle pan to fit the much differently shaped subaru trans.
 

prizrak

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The vinyl on the side of the Mustang is starting to wether, question is do I want to put same exact stuff on just new or go with something different. I do like the look, it does a good job of adding a bit of an accent to an otherwise boring side.
 

katwalk

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Tbh at this point I may wait it out and see what electric options come out soon because it might end up becoming more reasonable with the battery advancements hopefully coming soon. I know at least one aftermarket beetle mod on the market actually does have what is basically a clutchless manual option and what it mostly control is the torque?

I'd really like an old bug to play with just because they are basically the easiest car to work on yourself and I'm still pretty much a novice who could use the practice. I don't even know where you could learn to service electric cars right now, which sucks because that's clearly going to be an in demand skill going forward.

In other news, I am all signed up for the next shop class (advanced instead of basic this time) + an autobody class. Lets see how well i handle 2 classes a week and see if I can continue to work up to acutally being employable. God I wish I had thought to try and go into a car related career earlier.

I also took the bug and fiat to be undercoated, which just leaves the subaru but GOD is it a pain to get mom to even let me take it in! She says she wants to keep it and I am even offering to pay for it, but it's still too much of a nuisance apparently. "I'm old the car will outlast me" despite being barely over 60 and healthier then me. Sigh.
 

EyeMWing

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Electric car service is basically going to be plugging in computers, navigating touchscreen menus, much of the same suspension and body mechanics, and autobody.

It's similar to regular cars in most ways, but much of the complexity is removed. A handful of additional systems are added, but are not designed to serviced, just replaced and shipped away for rebuilding.

Oh, and there are some bonus safety rules.
 

Spectre

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Electric car service is basically going to be plugging in computers, navigating touchscreen menus, much of the same suspension and body mechanics, and autobody.

It's similar to regular cars in most ways, but much of the complexity is removed. A handful of additional systems are added, but are not designed to serviced, just replaced and shipped away for rebuilding.

Oh, and there are some bonus safety rules.
Even Teslas still have to have coolant and lubricant changes. Yeah, they don't have to have engine oil changes, but they still have other automotive systems that won't be disposable and will have to be serviced. You still have to flush the brake system every so often, etc.
 

EyeMWing

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prizrak

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You'd think. But most of those occur less frequently than change of ownership, so they'll either never happen or only happen at resellers.

Indeed, looking at the Tesloop maintenance records, it seems Tesla service centers agree:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HqBIOtNsYPalG51nAw_nubgskv4TQPGx8WhPZO4a_U8/edit#gid=0
Aero body panels, tires, brakes, suspension, batteries. No mention of fluid services.
Realistically even in regular cars full coolant and brake flush is a relatively rare occurrence.
 

EyeMWing

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Realistically even in regular cars full coolant and brake flush is a relatively rare occurrence.
tbh I've never ACTUALLY done a brake fluid change on a road car. Caliper or hose changes leading to bleed operations that exchanged all the fluid, yes.
Autocross cars, yes.
Race cars, yes.

I do (more or less) change Subaru coolant on more or less the schedule because
1575736177563.png

but with the current gen coolant that's 150k miles for the first one and an additional 100k miles for each subsequent.
 

Spectre

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tbh I've never ACTUALLY done a brake fluid change on a road car. Caliper or hose changes leading to bleed operations that exchanged all the fluid, yes.
Autocross cars, yes.
Race cars, yes.

I do (more or less) change Subaru coolant on more or less the schedule because
View attachment 3556651
but with the current gen coolant that's 150k miles for the first one and an additional 100k miles for each subsequent.
If you check the manuals, many cars recommend brake fluid flushes at specific intervals. Tesla's own recommendation is to replace it every 25K. Battery pack coolant replacement is 50K. https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/why-does-brake-fluid-have-25k-replacement-period

The drive unit requires the "fluid," or as other people call it, OIL, to be replaced every 37.5K. https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/do-i-need-drive-unit-fluid-service

You'd think. But most of those occur less frequently than change of ownership, so they'll either never happen or only happen at resellers.

Indeed, looking at the Tesloop maintenance records, it seems Tesla service centers agree:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HqBIOtNsYPalG51nAw_nubgskv4TQPGx8WhPZO4a_U8/edit#gid=0
Aero body panels, tires, brakes, suspension, batteries. No mention of fluid services.
If you're replacing the batteries, you are also replacing the battery coolant. And when they replaced the drive unit, they also replaced the fluid.
 

katwalk

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Even Teslas still have to have coolant and lubricant changes. Yeah, they don't have to have engine oil changes, but they still have other automotive systems that won't be disposable and will have to be serviced. You still have to flush the brake system every so often, etc.
Yeah a lot of stuff would stay the same. The entire joke with VW focusing on electric cars to make up for their diesel fail is that your average VW failure is something electrical like a faulty sensor or blowing out bulbs, which would also likely break on the electic ones.

Apparently cars are computery enough that half the service stuff done at the dealer that is done is Just Computer Stuff even with ICE though so you can probably get the basics down from the not electric ones.
 

prizrak

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Apparently cars are computery enough that half the service stuff done at the dealer that is done is Just Computer Stuff even with ICE though so you can probably get the basics down from the not electric ones.
With any modern car the amount of sensors and controllers is such that in 90% of the cases the first step is going to be hooking up a code reader, even if you don’t have a CEL (many codes don’t trigger one).
The stuff that computer wouldn’t help/be needed would be same on EV and ICE, suspension, brakes, alignment, etc...
 

katwalk

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Yeah though the person in my class who just got a job at nissan was full on complaining it was boring because apparently its not just read code then fix things, if they bring in a car for a tune up THAT is mostly digital even. Like they do maintenance on the computer itself even if nothing is broken i guess and sometimes that is the majority of the service now?
 

Spectre

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Yeah though the person in my class who just got a job at nissan was full on complaining it was boring because apparently its not just read code then fix things, if they bring in a car for a tune up THAT is mostly digital even. Like they do maintenance on the computer itself even if nothing is broken i guess and sometimes that is the majority of the service now?
There is still a lot of mechanical maintenance involved at car dealerships - but they're not exactly trusting newbie techs with a lot of the work. Your classmate is still in the one-step-above-porter range of tech until they get more experience and they won't be trusted with anything complex or heavy, so they're not seeing that kind of work yet.

It's de rigeur for a car that comes into a dealership for maintenance, such as an oil change or even a complimentary checkup, to get whatever software updates are outstanding for it.
 

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Yeah though the person in my class who just got a job at nissan was full on complaining it was boring because apparently its not just read code then fix things, if they bring in a car for a tune up THAT is mostly digital even. Like they do maintenance on the computer itself even if nothing is broken i guess and sometimes that is the majority of the service now?
Beats getting dripped on from snow packed under the car...
 

prizrak

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Yeah though the person in my class who just got a job at nissan was full on complaining it was boring because apparently its not just read code then fix things, if they bring in a car for a tune up THAT is mostly digital even. Like they do maintenance on the computer itself even if nothing is broken i guess and sometimes that is the majority of the service now?
I think @Spectre is right on the fact that your buddy is too much of a n00b to be trusted with a lot of stuff. I've had plenty of mechanical things, where a computer diag wasn't needed/possible, done to my cars (mostly documented on this very board) and they aren't exactly ancient.
 

katwalk

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This is for a specific incredibly basic service that is like, the car version of a checkup. Some of it is that they are not letting them do much, but I more mean apparently a rather large percent of the cars coming in are only getting that now. Like it's bundled with check tire tread and brake pads i guess and that's about the whole thing.

The computer part seems to involve like actually updating software and stuff so combined with nothingness normal wear checks like that, ends up being the majority of the time you're spending on the service.
 

Spectre

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This is for a specific incredibly basic service that is like, the car version of a checkup. Some of it is that they are not letting them do much, but I more mean apparently a rather large percent of the cars coming in are only getting that now. Like it's bundled with check tire tread and brake pads i guess and that's about the whole thing.

The computer part seems to involve like actually updating software and stuff so combined with nothingness normal wear checks like that, ends up being the majority of the time you're spending on the service.
Yes, Nissan does complimentary checkups in most areas because this generates more income for dealers when they discover something in need of attention as well as garnering good will from idiot drivers that don't inspect their vehicles themselves on a regular basis. This is different from a pre purchase inspection or a certified pre-owned inspection and is literally just a quick once over to catch anything immediately obvious - it's highly profitable but doesn't require much by way of additional training and the chances that some newbie will cause thousands of dollars in damage through ineptitude is very minimal. That's what he's getting relegated to - once he gets trusted more, he will be promoted to do oil and basic fluid changes and will start to see the more involved parts of dealership service and maintenance. It's not at all just what he's seeing.
 
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Perc

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Tbh I DID wonder why, if they already HAD shiftable automatics why the tiptronic would be a novelty in 2003 :|
VW's Autostick (and Porsche's Sportomatic) wasn't really an automatic. You got a normal manual gearbox with a mechanical gearstick in a normal H pattern. I say normal, but unlike a normal manual it had a P position.

Here's the weird part - between the engine and trans you had a clutch AND a torque converter. The torque converter allowed you to drive it in traffic like an automatic. The clutch was vacuum actuated and controlled via a microswitch under the gear knob. The clutch disengaged when you grabbed the gear lever to shift. No resting your hand on the gearstick while driving, in other words.

Using "D" was the same thing as slushing around in second gear all the time. Thanks to the torque converter, second gear was (supposedly) short enough to start from a standstill and still tall enough for in-town use. No idea how well this works in reality.

IIRC VW's gearbox had three speeds. Porsche's version had four.

image.jpg
 
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